 egoldstein says: Some thoughts i've had lately about clipmarks. Smatter EG, the database runneth over?  Seriously though this is a very good point. Absolutely agree. I personally think you should have some kind of lock down, or a warning message, whenever someone tries to clip a huge page. Your advise and recommendation here perhaps may go down in drain but your concept is wonderful and there should be a reminder of some sort for everyone and for all the time. Point taken, EG. I can seehow Clipmarks can be a victim of its own convenience. One valid reason for clipping entire articles is for preservation purposes in case the original page is moved or taken offline (which seems to happen to most pages eventually). Perhaps such archival clips should be kept private. The last thing we want to do is get Clipmarks in trouble. There are two main reasons we don't have a block or warning in place for large clips. First, for private clips we wouldn't do this. Second, many people clip information from their own sites (ex: blogs) and should be free to clip as much as they want. Since we can't determine this in advance, we have chosen to leave it to the user's discretion to clip appropriately. The key, especially regarding public clipmarks, is that a clipmark should, by definition, capture a key piece of information that moved you to clip it. Otherwise, it's not really worthy of being clipped. I guess the whole concept of "clip-worthiness" is one i think a lot about. If you're basically just using clipmark... But then how would you solve this, technically? Lets hope we don't ever need to. It's just got to become a part of the clipmarks way. People clipping and popping clip-worthy things will hopefully set a standard that becomes ingrained in the experience. Ah. good point indeed. I do forget about that, so used I am to gathering news here. One problem that I would have is that I clip a lot of images and cartoons which can't really be "half-clipped". I guess there's not much could be done with that. In any case, good point Eric. I hope I'm not too bad at this. Sometimes I've noticed the only part that hi-lites is the whole section. It may be my browser but I think it has to do with the clipping process. I will try to Isolate the data from now on. Thanx for the reminder! bad clipmarks in. bad clipmarks out. ClipGarbage the whole concept of popping is to promote clipmarks that the community thinks are most clipworthy. it's not intended to necessarily be a sign that you like or agree with the clip, just that you deem it clipworthy. the collective act of everyone popping clipmarks should then cause the most clipworthy bits of information at any given time to rise to the top. I do capture full length article in clipmark and i don't want to stop: the fact is that i can keep "backups" of good articles in clipmarks, and i'm sure that even if the original article is deleted/disappear, i will still have it in clipmark  I do it in public because most of the time, thoses are articles that my friends could also like ... I really don't see the problem to do so: Clipmark put a clear link to the original and don't try to fool user trying to make them think content is from someone else.. I really don't understand why we should not clip full articles in public.. This is really one of the strength of clipmark compared to more commons social bookmarking web site. This was just my 2 cents opinion What Olivier said. Clipping a full article that spans multiple pages is nice because you can get the whole article as one item, less all the bullshit between. If the article is the focus of the clip then it is appropriate. When the article, the ads and the rest of the page is clipped that is what should be refrained from. I'm guilty and I often try to go to great lenghts not to clip the entire page. I try to clip the header/title logo and the index so you can link right where you want to go. Many times I find myself linking into the content links but not the source. I see something 'else' interesting and get curious. You can really clean up you clipping easily using click2zap. I recommend the lined out original version over the new one, but try both and see which you prefer. Same here. I also find it easier to be able to read articles all in one place (rather than having to visit numerous websites). When trying to revamp my personal website I have actually in many cases clipped my pages written by me and coded by me so I could get a clean and faster running version that I an put into my site that I am building" Though the design elements added for local networks work there they do not allow for the speed element needed to run a site as fast as feed. I have clipped full pages of my own from my personal websites, mail, & other privately owned sites by myself for the sole purpose of saving them or rmailing my file to myself and then deleting them.These files are private clips which do not show up unless you tag. Files I wrote, but don't mind being shared, are set to private and tagged... What Oliver said and also what Skwirlinator said first (but I will check out click2zap now). Ouch!! Hopefully you'll like my next blog post better...introducing our new home page and some big design changes within an hour. I like it very much that there is a spectrum of opinion displayed here. At one end, the "tidy, small-clip people." On the other end, the "kinda-might-as-well-be-a-bookmark" people (take no offense, either end). Somewhere in the middle is where I reside. What I love more is the spectrum of personalities in this community, and how that translates into a wide variety of clips, with varying characteristics. Members of the community should be left to do as they please, to contribute to the community in whatever way comes naturally. To interfere with this would seem detrimental to the diversity of the community. ...What I love more is the spectrum of personalities in this community, and how that translates into a wide variety of clips, with varying characteristics. Members of the community should be left to do as they please, to contribute to the community in whatever way comes naturally. To interfere with this would seem detrimental to the diversity of the community.I Agree The irony here is that this clipmark here is the entire post entry. Sometines the essense is in the clip and more so in the comments of other concientious clippers. Some times it is the style of the entire message that makes one want to pursue the source/parent site of the as site worth watching and following,even referring. Damn EricG, Debra down throwed down the gauntlet!  hell yeah...you ever see me so quiet?  Well,for that I will say I do appreciate adam's clipmarks,which are always short and neat. no doubt rhymonde...i totally agree with that. i just find clips like his so much easier to check out and learn from. but hey, it's been made pretty clear here that not everyone agrees...i suppose that's what makes the clipiverse go 'round. Well,for that I will say I do appreciate adam's clipmarks,which are always short and neat.Thanks rhymonde. I get much more of an info fix checking out 10 snippets about different topics than reading a whole article. What can I say, I'm a clip-size-portions kinda guy nice clip EG. I remember that we had this discussion lately via email. However, I also like to clip whole articles as I like to see information in the context of the whole piece. Otherwise I'm one of the six blind men describing an elephant, if you know what I mean. I'm agreeing with a lot what has being said so far. It's true that 'adam-like' clips are easier to read and more 'popable'I understand the concern to have short 'clipworthy' clips that convey a short and interesting idea. But the ability to save full articles, not separated in several pages and not littered with ads in a central online repository is also something which makes clipmarks a great service. I just hope there won't be any 'technological measures' to prevent big (public) clips. That would devalue clipmarks as a whole (imho). I also think the concern of copyright-infringement may be somewhat of a premature overreaction. I think that everyone is happy that there is a cut off limit of words in the comment boxes too. I am guilty of posting comments that are longer than the clips. I will work on brevity, if it makes you happier. My fingers...I just can't stop them, from running my mouth. I understand the nature of a "clipping," but need a bit more clarification. When I originally found ClipMarks, I was looking for software product that allowed me to archive (permanently, or at least for a long time) web pages and snippets from web pages. Since the web is constantly changing, and we can't always count on web sites to remain active, or content to remain available, I wanted a way to save all the juicy bits of information I've come across. ClipMarks seemed to fit the bill. However, if we are only to clip "parts" of a web site, it defeats the purpose of "saving" these potentially temporary sources of information, since if I follow my ClipMark 2 years from now to the original ... I completely share knslyr's concerns. Since I primarily use Clipmarks for archiving the articles and news stories I'm interested, I usually (almost always) clip the whole written material - in case it might not be available after some time. But I understand this may cause a copyright problem for Clipmarks; so, no problem, I can save them as private clips for my personal collection. But, this time, my relation with the community part seems obscured. I don't separate and classify the material I clipped as "these are for private" and "these are for the community". I simply clip the stuff suitable to my personal interests and then I make them "public" to share with fellow clipmarkers. But in thi... I think the "saving" portion of Clipmarks (the private bookmarking) is being minimized with the essence of this updated policy. As far as I'm concerned, what got me to the Clipmarks in the first place was its ability and a feature to save/bookmark websites/text at one location. Clipmark's "social-networking" feature was something I found to be a bonus (and a very good one). Now that I do not see the private bookmarking feature as something being emphasized on the front page, I'm not sure how many potential new users you may be attracting in the future. This does not mean I no longer like Clipmarks (because I'm hooked) but you may want to keep this aspect in mind for retaining new user base. Example of "losing the info"... Clipped by brazilnut at 8:30 ish this morning: http://www.clipmarks.com/clipmark/C9FCB4F3-F33A-4F28-AD1F-9AEEA0C4C3C8/ What is needed is a way to let the ClipMarks team know what the Clipmunity expects from ClipMarks quite honestly, i think that when it comes to clipmarks, i probably suffer from a bit of an identity crisis. i'd like to see it accomplish the 2 major things it's capable of. 1) replace/compliment bookmarks as a better way to manage information found on the web...it's a no brainer imo. 2) provide a great place for people to share and discuss interesting information they find on the web. most of all, as kore said, i hope clipmarks offers people "a site that is both fun and informative at the same time." so far, i have found it very difficult to properly explain both of these visions at the same time without causing each to be blurred. so far, i have found it very difficult to properly explain both ofHey, you have done excellent. Its just that whenever you make vision statements in public with an opportunity for feedbacks, you have to be ready to take disagreements, it is only natural. i appreciate that arifsali (and i am grateful for the feedback...i know that everyone is trying to help, not criticize). i am very worried that it's too difficult for newcomers to understand the true essence of clipmarks because there are many different reasons to use it that apply to each individuals' needs and wants. in some ways it's a compliment to what we've created, but in another it's a real criticism of our ability to explain/position it.. Perhaps it should be little difficult so you'd get the quality and not the quantity. sorry, it should read "not just the quantity". Obviously, quantity is good, but it should match with the quality. no doubt about it...that's exactly what we have been thinking too. also, i think it's a question of whether the clips speak better about clipmarks than a description ever would. what i mean is, are we better off just showcasing the great diversity of cips on the site and letting people figure it out than providing a broad overview of the things clipmarks can do? that was the primary motivation behind the changes to our home page. If it helps at all, I think there is already an inherent bias in the system to highlight the smaller, more targeted clips, which are more likely to be read by the general audience, thus making them more POPular. The long clips are usually only of interest to a select few, understandably, and thus don't get popped as much. I agree with Invictus and others that it is awfully useful to be able to clip the full text of articles for archival and convenience purposes. Maybe we users have been spoiled by now, but I hope Clipmarks can continue to serve all the purposes mentioned so far. One thing I really like about the clipmarks overall design is that when you are interested in a particular style or clip you can see who else "pop" it or re sent it on the wire. That is a great way to find other similar topics and styles. I think the number of Pops says a lot about how clip worthy a topic is. Those who find clipmarks through a referral would probably join for reasons similar to the source that referred them. I found clipmarks as a quirky link to a search. I am glad it exists and I respect your vision. I just personally find it to be a remarkable tool to aid me in my private vision of something else. for that reason I will help you promote your vision. But, I cannot de... kore wrote: I hope Clipmarks can continue to serve all the purposes mentioned so far.i don't have any doubt that we will...just looking to make sure we accomodate them all as well as possible (without having the various uses blur one another). brainstorming here and playing with an idea in my head...in order to keep the focus on "clip-size" portions of information while also providing the full page/article archiving functionality, what if we did the following: when in the public, display a limited amount of text in a clipmark, but when in your own clipmarks, display the entire content of the clip. maybe it could work similar to the change we made with comments...where only ... when in the public, display a limited amount of text in a clipmark, but when in your own clipmarks, display the entire content of the clip.You are a genious. What you are thinking with Clipmarks is just excellent and necessary. Ideally, I would wish each one of us only clip the necessary portion of text (something we wish others to really read and not skip) but with above suggestion, you will be keeping both readers and posters happy. I definitely think layering the content in this way is the right way to go. If the clipmark "frame" presents a clip-size portion, people will naturally tailor their clips to fit it. But that said, making the rest of the content one click away would satisify the needs of people who want to clip and/or read more content. Eric said: Adam said:Excellent! You guys are great. I think this would be the ideal solution to the clip size problem. Continuous development, neverending brain stormings and always taking steps ahead for new practical solutions. This is why I love Clipmarks! Yah! What Invictus, Eric and Adam said! You go guyfriends! What if there was a check box that said "big clip" or "little clip" That would be very helpful for people who surf with cell phones. There are two different billing methods, one by transfer size and other chargers per navigation.. The person with a concern with astronomical services fees could avoid big clips if they want to budget. The natural filtering of embeds , etc, makes clipmarks a good central site and avoid extra navigation. A larger clip which is "just text" still remains small in transmission size and would be useful to those using hand held devices to get more information while on the go. I've been looking into options that are the best way to go so I can best use inform... Good point. Like a summary in the title. A warning on the size of a clip would help others that want that quick fix of info. Some pages natural defaults are set to allow copy of just the "Title" or the "entire content". That is an elected feature by the original authors. Some authors would prefer that you used the whole content so that they do not feel misrepresented at the intended point. That's why it's either just the title or the whole thing. I've noticed comments on tricks on how to go around this. That, however, was put in a page design sometimes to comply with their original source providers. For instance weather.dot com allows re-usage if and only if there is a total use of their sponsored page. If a person is concerned on what to clip and how to clip then reading those "policies" and "terms" on ma... As a new user of clipmarks, I think the "help" page could clarify all these concerns. When I clicked on help, it didn't bring me to any help page, and the only type of answers are in "Q&A", which is helpful but slightly disorganized. I love the setup of this sight and I love being able to either clip part of an article or the entire article - it's brilliant and I'm excited to have found out about it. To be honest, I didn't even realize for awhile that I could clip multiple sections of a page - I was just clipping once, then saving. It's my fault because I installed clipmarks awhile ago and only started using it recently so had to relearn, but I believe that because the point of this websi... maybe a screencast that shows the different ways to clip and such would be good idea? Alex, welcome to Clipmarks. The best thing to do when beginning with a new webapp or installed app, is to just start experimenting, "click and play'", I call it. I have found stuff that developers have not noticed or have forgotten to mention this way. So first read all they got, and then..."click and play". And, of course, as you've done here, ask lots of questions. there are a lot of things about clipmarks i am very proud of. that said, educating people about what clipmarks is and how it works is not one of them. quite honestly, i'd give us a D-. Actually, I think your understated approach is one of your very appealing factors here at The Clip. You tend to presume intelligence and respect the individual approach to using it. One also has to distinguish between intelligence and having a lot of free time to "click and play". I luckily have had the time to discover this website but if this were a regular day for me, I never could have taken out the time that I did with futzing around in the Q&A page trying to find answers to my questions. If clipmarks is trying to reach out to students at universities, for example, who could use this as a tool for their online research, or employees at research institutions, they need to show that it's a time saver, not a time waster. Then again, I agree that understated and simple is good - just look at google. Good points all, [b]Alex |
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