If by some remote chance she is successful, it will be a huge blow to the American form of Democracy. The peaceful transfer of power is one of the hallmarks of our system.

Correction. It will be a huge blow FOR the American form of Democracy. It will show the world that our form of government actually works. It will put on notice any future pretender to the American throne that the government actually works FOR the people by the grace of the people, not the other way around. It will also serve notice that we are a democratic republic, not an authoritarian imperial nation.

The peaceful transfer of power was shot dead by the Supreme Court eight years ago.

If one puts Bus...

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If by some remote chance she is successful, it will be a huge blow to the American form of Democracy. The peaceful transfer of power is one of the hallmarks of our system.

Correction. It will be a huge blow FOR the American form of Democracy. It will show the world that our form of government actually works. It will put on notice any future pretender to the American throne that the government actually works FOR the people by the grace of the people, not the other way around. It will also serve notice that we are a democratic republic, not an authoritarian imperial nation.

The peaceful transfer of power was shot dead by the Supreme Court eight years ago.

If one puts Bush on trial for "murder", then one must also put all the members of his cabinet on trial.

All in due time, is my fervent hope, as the full extent of the law allows and demands.

By association, those who voted for him are all guilty.

Morally, yes. My conscience is clean on that. If someone else's isn't, not much I can do but say that's the price you pay for sleeping with the evil. Legally, however, I'd guess that those who voted for BushCo are no more guilty by association than the fellow who sells a car to the guy who uses it to rob a bank.

This is America, not Soviet Russia. We do not have purges here.

No, but we do have law and we are a nation of laws, not men. No man is above the law, including George W. Bush & Company. When the law is the force, it is not a purge but rather it is the considered will of the people in action.

Be content to correct what you perceive as his mistakes.

I have no idea how to bring 4000+ US soldiers and 1,000,000+ Iraqi citizens back to life. Do you?

To do otherwise will be to create an extremely dangerous precedent.

One precedent I can see being set is that we would make it clear that we expect our leaders to act in a legal and moral manner, something even Boy Scouts can handle.

@BartendingBear,

Your arguments are well-stated, lucid, courteous, and wrong.

Correction. It will be a huge blow FOR the American form of Democracy. It will show the world that our form of government actually works. It will put on notice any future pretender to the American throne that the government actually works FOR the people by the grace of the people, not the other way around. It will also serve notice that we are a democratic republic, not an authoritarian imperial nation.

What it will do is put choices that are made by the American people in the hands of the court. Certainly you feel that is what was done in the 2000 election...certainly you would not want to repe...

@BartendingBear,

Your arguments are well-stated, lucid, courteous, and wrong.

Correction. It will be a huge blow FOR the American form of Democracy. It will show the world that our form of government actually works. It will put on notice any future pretender to the American throne that the government actually works FOR the people by the grace of the people, not the other way around. It will also serve notice that we are a democratic republic, not an authoritarian imperial nation.

What it will do is put choices that are made by the American people in the hands of the court. Certainly you feel that is what was done in the 2000 election...certainly you would not want to repeat that. It would also serve notice to the world that we are NOT a democratic republic. When people do things we do not agree with--even war--we vote them out...not prosecute them.

No, but we do have law and we are a nation of laws, not men. No man is above the law, including George W. Bush & Company. When the law is the force, it is not a purge but rather it is the considered will of the people in action.

Of course you have to prove an actual law was broken. Remember that we went to war in Iraq with overwhelming and bipartisan public and congressional support. If you cry "but Bush lied and people died" remember that liberal "memes" might not constitute actual evidence in a real court of law. Rightly or wrongly, wisely or foolishly, Bush acted according to evidence that was agreed upon by many countries--even those (ie France) who did not go along with the invasion. Remember also that in anything but a kangaroo court the defendant (in this case "Bush and Co.") are considered innocent until proven guilty.

There is a big difference between the "will of the people" as envisioned by the founders of this country and "the will of the people" as it was practiced in the French Revolution (just to cite one example).

@Bartending Bear: continued...

I have no idea how to bring 4000+ US soldiers and 1,000,000+ Iraqi citizens back to life. Do you?

Of course not. Anybody perishing is a tragedy, whether or not you agree with the cause for which they perished.

But this is no reason to prosecute those leaders who believed (rightly or wrongly) that they were acting in the best interests of the country. At the end of a bloody and horrific Civil War, Abraham Lincoln was able to look at those who perpetrated it and say "with malice toward none". Common wisdom is that it would have been much better for all parties involved if he had lived to institute that policy.

One precedent I can see ...

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@Bartending Bear: continued...

I have no idea how to bring 4000+ US soldiers and 1,000,000+ Iraqi citizens back to life. Do you?

Of course not. Anybody perishing is a tragedy, whether or not you agree with the cause for which they perished.

But this is no reason to prosecute those leaders who believed (rightly or wrongly) that they were acting in the best interests of the country. At the end of a bloody and horrific Civil War, Abraham Lincoln was able to look at those who perpetrated it and say "with malice toward none". Common wisdom is that it would have been much better for all parties involved if he had lived to institute that policy.

One precedent I can see being set is that we would make it clear that we expect our leaders to act in a legal and moral manner, something even Boy Scouts can handle.

I am more inclined to think that it would prevent future American leaders from making tough and unpopular decisions for fear it would result in future prosecution once their party fell out of favor. This would be very, very bad.

I want to thank you for taking the time to respond in a civilized and respectable manner. This is how political debate SHOULD work.

When people do things we do not agree with--even war--we vote them out...not prosecute them.

They are war criminals. It's not about "disagreeing". Countries have been invaded and populations terrorised and killed in the hundreds of thousands.

If one puts Bush on trial for "murder", then one must also put all the members of his cabinet on trial.

YES. Starting from the top and working your way down, till each and every one with blood on their hands is held accountable. Just like we did (and still do), with Nazi criminals. Never shall they be allowed to rest.

As a non-American, I also have a hard time putting all my trust in a purely American court. It should ...

When people do things we do not agree with--even war--we vote them out...not prosecute them.

They are war criminals. It's not about "disagreeing". Countries have been invaded and populations terrorised and killed in the hundreds of thousands.

If one puts Bush on trial for "murder", then one must also put all the members of his cabinet on trial.

YES. Starting from the top and working your way down, till each and every one with blood on their hands is held accountable. Just like we did (and still do), with Nazi criminals. Never shall they be allowed to rest.

As a non-American, I also have a hard time putting all my trust in a purely American court. It should be an International war crimes tribunal. Like we did in Nuremberg and by whose laws they should be held accountable. Just like everybody else. If it was good enough for Milosevich and Pinochet, it sure as heck is good enough for Mr Bush. Besides, it is foreign nations that have been wronged and they should be allowed a roll in the trials and prosecutions. He needs to be held accountable before the whole world, not just USA.

Another point about some of Bush's war crimes (not to mention his violations of the U.S. Constitution and Civil Rights)

# 1. Approving torture, just this alone, is a war crime.

#2. It's not the case that the Bush Administration went to war believing it was right. There is a trail of events that indicate there were deliberate fabrications used to start this war.

1. The fabrication about Saddam Hussein seeking to want Weapons of Mass Destruction because of (false) documentation that he was trying to buy yellow cake from Niger. A trail of documents hint that this was a false fact, ordered by the White House, created by the CIA, and spread by British MI6.

2. The fabrication by Dick Cheney th...

Another point about some of Bush's war crimes (not to mention his violations of the U.S. Constitution and Civil Rights)

# 1. Approving torture, just this alone, is a war crime.

#2. It's not the case that the Bush Administration went to war believing it was right. There is a trail of events that indicate there were deliberate fabrications used to start this war.

1. The fabrication about Saddam Hussein seeking to want Weapons of Mass Destruction because of (false) documentation that he was trying to buy yellow cake from Niger. A trail of documents hint that this was a false fact, ordered by the White House, created by the CIA, and spread by British MI6.

2. The fabrication by Dick Cheney that there was a meeting in Poland between the head of the Iraq security agency and the leader of the 9/11 attacks.

3. There is also admitted, if nothing else, "cherrypicking," of intelligence of make a slanted case.

4. There is also questions about the anthrax attacks one week after 9/11 and Bush, Cheney and CIA implying these attacks were linked to Muslims, al-Qaeda, and/or Iraq. But the anthrax was proved to have actually come from a USA biological weapons lab.

5. More.

It seemed she was a third party candidate.

Third party candidates can't win in a winner-take-all unfair democracy.

______

As for Bush's war crimes, I'm confident that there will be a war crime trial and charges for violating civil law and the Constitution.

In six states any citizen can start a petition drive to impanel a grand jury (the first step to indicting someone on criminal charges...

see: http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Petitions_to_impanel_grand_juries

So if such a trial doesn't happen then we have no one to blame, since anyone could do it -- and I'd encourage them to do so rather than moan about how no one is doing anything good.

Obama has made it clear that none of thi...

It seemed she was a third party candidate.

Third party candidates can't win in a winner-take-all unfair democracy.

______

As for Bush's war crimes, I'm confident that there will be a war crime trial and charges for violating civil law and the Constitution.

In six states any citizen can start a petition drive to impanel a grand jury (the first step to indicting someone on criminal charges...

see: http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Petitions_to_impanel_grand_juries

So if such a trial doesn't happen then we have no one to blame, since anyone could do it -- and I'd encourage them to do so rather than moan about how no one is doing anything good.

Obama has made it clear that none of this will be easy. It will take patience and it will take being realistic on what can be done, what should be done first, etc.

The nation is in a deep black hole, suck deep into two false wars for the sake of Oil and Israel; still failed to kill or capture bin Laden, a true looming great chance at depression/recession; loss of homes, jobs, industry, etc.

Obama has asked for help.

Some folks don't get it. They think they should continue to *hit, groan and moan.

That's not helping.

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem"

"Get out of the new road if you can't lend a hand."

Seriously...