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Have they developed a withdrawal strategy for this one? Do they have a puppet lined up to take over? Are they going to use Haliburton almost exclusively, as they have in Iraq? ( Maybe they will get a discount. Considering what Iran, itself, has said about it's plans for the US and Israel, I don't have a problem with this. A 'plan' is better than 'no plan' and it would be irresponsible for any President or government *not* to have 'a plan'. The next in-coming President will need all of the preparation and multiple-planning he can get! Iran's tentacles are moving everywhere: Russian, N. Korea, Syria, Lebanon, Venezuela, Gaza, Egypt, Great Britain, etc.... Soon we will be surrounded, just as Israel is now. Iran? Tentacles? We can't afford to be histrionic. The Iranian students who led the revolt against the Shah expected that America would approve of their populist revolt. Iran is the only voting democracy with a functional government right now. Iranians bear no inate ill will against Americans, in fact, they like us. So why start a war with them? What is more, strategically, I cannot make it any clearer: if we fight a war with Iran we will lose. If we don't have the ability to win in disorganized and conflicted countries like Iraq or Afghanistan, what makes us think we could conquer a developed and militarized nation bristling with nationalism? Jingoist fantasies are fun for armchair gener... Iranians bear no inate ill will against Americans, in fact, they like us.Ahmadinejad does not like us. I believe he's told the world he plans to do away with us. "Is it possible for us to witness a world without America and Zionism?...you had best know that this slogan and this goal are attainable, and surely can be achieved." War with Iran is insanity. Maybe, and that is a big maybe we should bomb their nuclear capability - big MAYBE. However, we can beat Iran without war. If we go to war with Iran, we may alienate the Iranian people who love America. Iran's economy is in precarious shape. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have been waged predominantly to "change the face of the Middle East". Both wars were in large part about Iran. We do not need to go to war with Iran. We can beat them with out war! We cant look at ourselves and see how intolerant we are of any other idea. And if they don't go along with our plans we blow them up. Grow up you fools. We are not the might thats right. We are just bullies pushing 3rd world people around. Nothing to be proud of in that nonsense. And Iran is sending tentacle`s all over the world? What do you call what we are doing? We have military bases in every country we think we can control. And we don't want Iran to have nuclear power when we have over 400,000 nuclear warheads. Some of which has been flying over our heads without our knowing it. And as far as the president of Iran not liking us. Do you know how many other countries don't like us? But ... We can just kill anyone who doesn't like us.Bush forming a plan for a war that Ahmadinejad himself said was coming isn't really the same thing as killing anyone who doesn't like us. Why is being prepared such a ridiculous thing? Then again, America is only as strong as it's weakest link. People with cptenaud's attitude make me think we have no other alternative but war. If the wacko Left really feel impelled to signal to Iran that America's resolve to win in Iraq, defeat Militant Islamic Jihad, and limit Iran's capabilites to dominate the region and continually threaten Israels existence, then bombs away! For me, the issue was a 'plan'. The President has been ferociously criticized for not having a 'plan' concerning Iraq. Well, let the Administration at least have a 'plan'! I heard a military-type say that in reality, it tries to have a 'plan' for every possibility. Sounds like a responsible thing for any government to do; especially ours. There is plans and there is planning. If its one the shelf plan for that rare of contingencies, then its necessary, but active planning to launch another war of aggression, thats different. And the Bush's administration had plans, piss poor plans, but plans none the less. And Willie, have you thought about the fact that all those things you mention are A) not the same and B) would not be resolved by a military strike on Iran and C) that Empire loath competition. After all like them on not, the Iranians live in the region, its the U.S. that is the outsider. War with Iran is insanity. But the Bush administration is crazy like a fox. For the neocons, total war is the only option for imposing their will on the rest of the world, and we all have a moral duty to try to stop this notion from going anywhere. Do these bozo's think we actually have the troops to send to Iran? Our army is taking soldiers back for third deployments, so you know what kind of pathetic shape our military is in. Maybe the only thing that will wake the American people up is a draft. If there were a draft, you or your son or daughter might be drafted. Since there is no draft, all we have to do is slap a "support our troops" sticker on our gas guzzlers, and not give a Goddamn. OK. You convinced me. America is too ignorant to understand the implications and threats at stake in te world. I was teetering, but I can always count on comments at Clipmarks to perk me up to common sense and accept the danger of the ignorance and hate that exists in America. History is important. Learn it. If you choose to hate Bush more than those who threaten the US, then you reveal youself to be incapable of rational thought about the nature of threat we face. The next 10 to 30 years will be unlike anything you can imagine. You're hatred for Bush and blind mistrust for a US President, any US President, just shows the depths of your irrationality and paranoia. I hope we take whatever action we need to take to respond to Iran's killing of American troops in Iraq before Bush leaves office. I hope we take whatever action we need to take to respond to Iran'sWould that include wiping Iran off the map with nukes Willhelm? What happens then? Iranians bear no inate ill will against Americans, in fact, they like us.Austin, the Iraqis would have probably fell in the same category before 2003, but not anymore. The American "sentiments" went to war with Saddam (an individual), now the same sentiments will go to war with Ahmadenijad. No, debbyski, it does not. But your question reveals more about your utter insane hatred than you can possibly know. How is criticizing a bad policy, "utter insane hatred" unless you believe that mere criticism is a sign of hate. Destroying the village in order to save it never actually saves the village. And if we follow your line of thinking then Truman should have nuked China and the Soviet Union because Chinese soldiers and Russian pilots killed U.S. soldiers in Korea or their weapons where used against U.S forces in Vietnam or Russia had the right to launch a nuclear strike because it was American weapon systems that killed Russian pilots and soldiers in Afghanistan. In fact by that same line of thinking, both Iraq and Iran have a right to kill American soldiers since both received funding (from the... The next 10 to 30 years will be unlike anything you can imagine.I think it's going down sooner than that, Willhelm. I think things will really heat up after the 2008 elections (US and elsewhere like Russia). Would that include wiping Iran off the map with nukes Willhelm? What happens then?Debbyski, did you read willhelm's earlier remarks? (emphasis mine) War with Iran is insanity. Maybe, and that is a big maybe we should bomb their nuclear capability - big MAYBE. However, we can beat Iran without war. If we go to war with Iran, we may alienate the Iranian people who love America.As far as I can tell Willhelm is not advocating ... Oh I can imagine a few things, like what exactly are these coming decades going to be like? Well, when the news was leaked about the B52 carrying armed nuclear cruise missiles crossing the US a couple of weeks ago: 1) they don't mount cruise missiles, armed or not, on the wings of B52s just to move them from place to place, any more than you'd move ammo from place to place by loading it into a gun first. If they just wanted to move them, they'd ship them in crates. 2) the B52's destination was Barksdale AFB, which according to their website, prides itself on being a staging area for the Middle East. 3) somebody on the inside thought the info was worth leaking to the public for some reason. I mean, how many clues do we need, folks? " If we go to war with Iran, we may alienate the Iranian people who love America. " The Iranian reformers have already answered the offers of "support" from the US with "thanks, but no thanks." I mean, who the Hell can blame them? At this point, support from the US is the kiss of death. "I hope we take whatever action we need to take to respond to Iran's killing of American troops in Iraq before Bush leaves office. " Well, one good response would be to get American troops out of Iraq. If the Iranians continued to kill American troops in the US, then I think everybody'd be pretty upset. I suppose if the Chinese decided to help the Mexicans by setting up a communist government there, you'd also think it would be wrong of the Americans to help Mexicans fighting the Chinese there? Support the Chinese right to "take whatever action they need to take to respond to the US' killing of Chinese troops in Mexico"? "You're hatred for Bush and blind mistrust for a US President, any US President, just shows the depths of your irrationality and paranoia" I assume you were equally upset when the Republicans decided to take down Clinton by any means possible, in the process distracting his time and energy from his own attempt to get al Qaeda? Which, nevertheless, he came a lot closer to doing than Bush has managed to do in six years since 9/11, without managing to bankrupt the country, burn out the military, and get the whole world to hate us? Which all leads the Republicans to..... declare it all to be Clinton's fault? I did read the earlier comment BNM and it was one of those rare moments when Willhelm and I actually agreed. I was simply responding to this comment, with a reasonable question. I hope we take whatever action we need to take to respond to Iran'sBut let's see, I have been called utter insane, full of hatred, and incapable of rational thought by Willhelm and that was just in this particular clip. Willhelm is most certainly not my whipping boy; I would just like to see him argue his logic without all the emotionalism he adds by name calling. Name calling just seems to me to be trying to intentionally ... I really think that was a cheap shot at me BNM,I wasn't directing my whipping boy comment to anyone in particular, Debbyski. I do wonder why you asked him if nuking Iran off the map was an option, when he just stated that we don't need to go to war with Iran. I appreciate your response. As for the way Willhelm responds, he can answer for that, and he already has on many clips. Name calling just seems to me to be trying to intentionally invoke anger in others. And what is the point of that?I agree. Sometimes I think people misinterpret what Willhelm says on purpose.I still think this is true. I wasn't directing my whipping boy comment to anyone in particular, Debbyski.And I would also like to thank you BNM for clearing that up for me and your response as well. Debbyski, My point is that you are incapable of ANY rational thought as it pertains to GW Bush. You are entirely intolerant of any conservative view. You are hateful to Bush in a way I would never be toward ANY political figure. You show a gross misunderstand of any issue you comment on, and you are constantly focused on irrational thinking. Then, you follow up with some expression of how "tolerant" and "loving" you are. BOVINE SCATOLOGY! The truthfulness and thoughtfulness of your comments are regularly as truthful and thoughtful as your contention that I "blame Clinton for everything". Remember that outright lie? Your description of my emotion is as off-target a comment as I have ev... Remember that outright lie?Add liar to the list of name calling Willhelm. Should I bother? Probably not. The emperor has no clothes. He doesn't now and he didn't in the past. It has all been lies and deception. All the swiftboating in the world will not change the fact that your leader is a COWARD and a LIAR. Your old swiftboating tricks will not work now. You have been caught out lying with your master too often. Intellectually, you are incapable of logical argument. You've had no practice. We have, lots of it. Crap is attracted towards crap. In the case of one crapper, I've decided not to waste my time and any intellect that I have, arguing with someone who is incapable of getting anything, anything correct. Check back on the 20 plus comments here if you d... Debbyski, you can add it if you want to . It makes no difference to me. If someone lies, they are a liar. If someone is short of understanding, facts, or knowledge of a particular subject, then they are ignorant. If you want to call that name-calling, then I really couldn't care less. There is not a single clipper that has been called derogatory, actual "name-calling" names more than I have and I never to respond in kind. So you can take your irrational charges at me and wrap them all up in your irrational hatred for Bush and the Right and build whatever self-righteous alter you want. It makes absolutely no difference to me. We do not have the resources for another war. We have not "finished' what we have started in Afghanistan and Iraq because we have crappy resources, an ill equipped armed forces with limited troups and bad strategists. So the idea here is just to go around opening up cans of "whoop-ass" on everyone without provocation and properly designed exit plans after the bombs drop? Rebuilding is MORE important to consider and develop than the tearing apart. War is easy, peace is hard.... So true ratifar. I guess President Bush has been keeping up with the DEBKA reports. Go to khouse.org to find more on Revelations, or to the bible! I wonder where God has told him to drop the bombs? War is easy, peace is hard....Especially for warlike people This was already covered in Fox News, but with a twist. You should read the full article. With a failing economy and a poor result in Iraq, how better to to take away the bad press than to invade Iran. Couple that with a court ruling against Iran for the Hezbollah bombing of the marine base in Lebanon, it is a foregone conclusion. However I was amazed at the audacity of Fox propaganda to blame the German government at the US failure at diplomacy. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296450,00.html Just because the German government do not want to put the interests of the Bush government before everyone else's, it is their fault that military action will be taken against Iran. What a croc... As for saying that it is a war to protect democracy. Iran is a democracy and the people of Iran have the right to self determination. This is my sentiments as well- Perhaps the USA should butt out of other nation's business and let them succeed or fail on their own. Especially if they don't ask for our help. If they attack us then we defend ourselves. This is my sentiments as well- Perhaps the USA should butt out of otherYES!!!!!!!!! Jatfla, you are an idiot! Cptenaud is right. America is the one invading other countries to extend its "tentacles". You should read a book called "Confessions of an economic hitman" and see just what America is trying to achieve. Iran is just another strategic target for oil. Wake up Jatfla! Bush must be stopped before he destroys us all in his pursuit of oil and power!!!!!!!!! "Iran is not a suicide nation," he said. "I mean, they may have some people in charge that don't appear to be rational, but I doubt that the Iranians intend to attack us with a nuclear weapon." ... John Abizaid, the retired Army general who headed Central Command for nearly four years, Abizaid: World could abide nuclear Iran and what would he know?! oohhh, i wish Americans had more education...what you guys know about this part of the world to come here and talk about killing people or not..!!! any of you know what happend there after the ww1? people like you, unaducated, r voting !!! shame on democraty like yours... Yeah the British and Germans played politics in the region. Wow, it looks like the issue of Iran is pretty hot, while intelligence on Iran is pretty scarce. It feels to me like we are fighting this war with ourselves, in our own minds. In the real world, I hope everyone is alert enough to realize: America does not have the strategic military power to defeat Iran in armed struggle. Not even with nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons work well against densely populated urban countries. Nukes would be totally useless in a desert country like Iran or Afghanistan or Iraq. It would only make them really angry. Arifsali has a point. When I say the Iranians have no ill will towards us that is something that could change quickly. Iranians would resent an invasio... Beautiful Persia Soiled and tattered at the feet of war mongers. To nuke such a place of history and beauty would be a crime against humanity. Beware the New Romans the Parthian shot. He wants to erase the imbalance of power between the two countries. This is uncomfortable to many Americans who would prefer the rest of the world remain on their knees, but it isn't as diabolical as mass media makes it out.Ouyangwulong, as always, I enjoy reading your thoughts. I guess we'll just have to disagree here. I don't believe Ahmadinajad wants a balance of power. I don't think Americans want the US to use nuclear weapons against anyone. I think Americans fear Iran becoming armed with nuclear technology. The US isn't the only nation concerned about it either. It is not concern, but rather Hysteria. America needs a boogie man. Tag Iran, your it. America needs a boogie man.America needs a kleenex Boogies are dirt and slime. I think we already have too much of that - we need to blow our collective noses and smell the fresh air. Boogie man is slang for a monster or terror figure in my part of the world. Provoking a future nuclear power is a bad idea, I agree. That's why I think we should stop doing it. It would do everyone a LOT of good to actually sit down and talk with a few Iranians, even though they are "the enemy" you might be surprised to find that they aren't that different from you or me. They can be reasoned with, and the things they want aren't so unreasonable. Americans routinely resent, and flaunt mandates from the UN and the international community on the basis that America is an independent nation beholden to no one. Americans would not assent to placing American soldiers under foreign commanders in international missions, and always insist that either we are in charge or ... Now that is an excellent comment OW. It would do everyone a LOT of good to actually sit down and talk with a few Iranians, even though they are "the enemy" you might be surprised to find that they aren't that different from you or me.Austin, you always come up with rational response. Take a look at this talk at SMU, it pretty much talks about the same thing. Congresswoman Eddie Bernice Johnson, Karen Hughes and Mahmoud Eboo (Ismaili Muslim leader). Ouyangwulong, It is impossible to suspect that sitting down with those in power in Iran would be worthwhile. The words of Ahmedinejad along with the words and actions of the powers-that-be in Iran shows they are NOT like you and me. Given the state of the Iranian economy, it would seem they would be conciliatory. They are not. The have been irrational and bent on their own desires for the region. You should not rally the opposition to standing up to Iran based on confusion between the Iranian people and those that rule the Iranian people. Despite the common leftist rhetoric about the opposition between al qaida and Iran, it is common knowledge they have joined based on common interests (R... wilhelm, there are talks between two individuals and then there are talks between two countries. The former is rational human interaction, the later is politics. Your assessment of Iran seems to be equating the talk with one-on-one individual talk, this doesn't apply when countries talk, there is always politics involved (in positive sense) when countries get to talk to each other; however the same logic of "knowing each other", applies to political talk before the talk ever begins to take shape. You are also blaming one country for all the ills by assuming the other country to be a saint. You see the problem in this logic? Actually, Willhelm, I am in total agreement with you, that we must resolve this conflict with Iran, and although I think connections between Al Qaeda and Iran is prorbably more whistful thinking, it isn't as if that connection is even necessary to make the case that the Iranian government represents a live wire that threatens the stability of the middle east. My point is in fact much in line with your comments, and that is to say that we must in fact find a diplomatic solution to the problem. The question of whether or not it would be good to militarily conquer Iran and install a new government as I see it is a moot point, a jingoist gedanken experiment. The point I stress above all else ... OK. I suspect my position has been clouded by my sarcasm directed at Debbyski. Arifsali, I understand your point. With all due respect to your level-headedness, I think it is irrelavent, and in the context of what was faced in WWII, rather naive. Ouyangwulong, In my opinion, there is nothing to gain from sitting down with Iran other than biding our time. I do not support war. I do not support "dialogue". I support economic sanctions that catastrophically crush Iran. The Iranian people will rise up and see two forming democracies on each border, and perhaps follow suit. I wholeheartedly believe the current powers in Iran are the embodiment of evil and I think the over-riding problem ... I wholeheartedly believe the current powers in Iran are the embodiment of evil and I think the over-riding problem is the fact that peace is not part of the Iranian agenda on anyone's terms but their own. SNAP that is what the Iranians think of America. The kettle calling the pot black. Less posturing and more dialogue. I support economic sanctions that catastrophically crush Iran. The Iranian people will rise up and see two forming democracies on each border, and perhaps follow suit. Ah yes that will do it. Dream on. How many decades has Cuba been sanctioned? I think North Korea has had the same sanctions . We have 6 countries that we are Putting sanctions on, and it is nothing but a joke. Read from this Url. http://www.house.gov/apps/list/speech/ca28_berman/newcomb_letter.html http://drclas.fas.harvard.edu/revista/articles/view/834 Yes willhelm. Lets not talk to anyone. Lets hold our breath until we are blue in the face. Such a mature response. And you think your intelligent? Thank you, cptenaud willhelm you said on my clips that you were against Bush, and now I find you over here supporting him. "You two faced b i t c h" ! I don't think you even know what you are. This is what you said ! "I have never been a supporter of Bush or this administration." LMAO !! Look like I said Iran is no threat to the U.S. and it is the last thing in the world that they want to do is to start a fight with the U.S.. Bush just wants to blow something up. I Never said I was against Bush either, Raven 714. Why do I have to play your partisan political BS? If you are among the ignorant that thinks infallibility resides with a particular party, then you are just as ignorant as all your other Leftist idiots. By the way, Ive made almost 4000 comments in CM, so I think my positions are pretty clear despited your delusion. We can all see your statements and know what you have said. That is how I have exposed the PKRONFIELD for the liar he is. Go to my clip " only 1% fight for this country". http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/710D405C-5F7E-4AB2-862B-1B0593772843/ Now who are you Willhelm? I know you are one of my followers. But you are not one I would want to follow. Sometimes the stalker becomes the stalked. Who am I? I love people. I hate humanity. I love free speech and expression. I love idealism over materialism. I love facts and clarity. I hate distortion and ignorance. I love peace, but peace is more than the absesnce of war. I love learning and reading. I am an artist, musical and visual. I am a Christian that beleives each person is created equal so we do not need your materialist experiments to "help" society. I think responsibilities are more important than rights, because without responsibilty rights are lost. I use my brain to reason and my heart as a guide. I am a recovering alcoholic, a devout Christian, an ecstatically happy husband and father. I have more success in life than ... Self-righteousness prevails among this sector of conservative Cptenaud. YOU ! Calling me self-righteous. That is a HOOT !!! Just how would it be that you can come to call me self righteous? As far as Clipmarks goes, you are the example of self-righteous. This has been the point of most of my comments to you over the past couple of weeks. Thanks for the laugh. I was feeling kind of sleepy and needed a good one. Willhelm: I found in one of your posts a compliment to me on my woodturnings. Glad to see you noticed. If you are interested in Taking this craft up, you should go here. http://www.woodturnersresource.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl In your previous post. You stated this. I think you are a war hero and a vile person. That's just a little about me. A war hero I am not. I volunteered to fight for a country that I (at my young age) thought was honest and was just. I found It was all lies. And now 40 years have gone by. And I see its Corruption , can now destroy the entire world. If I were to be Silent to this debacle. I would be going against my military Vows. Those being to defend against all en... We all have our reasons to be vile, cptenaud. Most of the reasons we have are based in irrationality. Perhaps you might check your subjectivity at the door as a good-faith effort to determine who are the true warmongers in this world. Thanks for the link. Cptenaud, You are not vile. I have to say that Willhelm is simply wrong. Incredible. What has America come to if people won't stand up against a corrupt, tyrannical government? The answer is simple: An enslaved nation that will devolve into a tyrannical dictatorship. Cptenaud, you will always be my hero. Debb; I believe willhelm may have just had too much to drink. He says I have no rational view. But I know I see quite clearly. I believe 70% of the rest of the country sees the same thing I do. I guess that is what makes the trolls so unhappy. Its hard to defend ideals that are not supported by the majority. cptenaud, when I read your comments I see a small ray of hope for the future, keep them up. I see Spongebob Squarepants. Only a comment from a man lost. Back on the sauce again? You know what cptenaud? I included that on my profile to be honest with myself. The same way I am honest with others. It is not so much important to me what others think about me, it is only important that I know where I've been and where I am now. The fact that you use that information as a dig at me, says to me that you have little or no respect for honesty. Do not get me wrong, I don't mind your comment. I just think you need to take a good, long, hard look in the mirror and be honest about the things you don't like about yourself. I think you both need to give each other sea room. What was the Spongebob Squarepants comment supposed to mean Willhelm? I mean the pots kinda calling the kettle black. DSki, Can you see why the puppeteers want to take Iran? Its right between Iraq and Afghanistan. Take a look at the Map If Iran was nuked they wouldn't need to be very precise - They could just lob in a bunch of bombs and blanket the whole area. You watch - Pakistan will be the next country needing 'fixed'. Yes Willhelm. You think your shitting on people is Ok. But when they retaliate you play the poor me role. And what was what you did on my clip yesterday all about? Anyone reading that would think you were drunk or insane. Anyone want to see it go here. http://clipmarks.com/clipper/cptenaud/sort/latest-comments/clip/710D405C-5F7E-4AB2-862B-1B0593772843/ It amazes me to see how foolish people are protecting the biggest fool of all.BUSH. And you come on our sites to do it. Wouldn't it be easier to just shoot yourself in the foot. But wait, with the price of ammunition and everything else going up in price because of this no win war. You probably wouldn't have the money to do that. Pentagon planners have developed a list of up to 2,000 bombing targets in Iran2000 targets in Iran. 2000! Just imagine. They don't even need to be accurate anymore. Just space them right and you can 'get' 3 countries for the price of 1. Perhaps we should just wipe out the whole mid east region and build a parking lot? Skwirl, you joke about them wanting to "fix" Pakistan, but Dick Cheney already suggested doing just that! And there are many other conservative war-hawks out there who see no reason why we shouldn't go ahead and invade Pakistan as well, followed by Uzbekstan, Tajikstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, China, Burma, heck, even France. Reasons why: 1. They won't have to fight. The army is made up of poor kids from the south these days. The chicken-hawks agitating for war stay safely on their sofas. 2. This IS a war against Islam. The Christian right has been very enthusiastic about the war on Terror, because it views Islam as the enemy. We are governed by Evangelical Christian politicians, many of whom... |
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