It didn't make any sense to conduct a underground nuclear test so
close to their coast, but according to this report this was their rationale:

The geographical location of the test has several advantages. It is exposed to significant seismic activity, which could serve to mask nuclear tests; it is believed to be close to Iran's nuclear development facility; delivery and transport of material and personnel can be effected easily through the Hormuz Strait; and Iranian enemies would hesitate to bomb the area because that would threaten the flow of a substantial percentage of the world's oil.

[url=http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=26.704%C2%B0N,+55.016%C2%B0E&ie=UTF8&ll=26.70421...

It didn't make any sense to conduct a underground nuclear test so
close to their coast, but according to this report this was their rationale:

The geographical location of the test has several advantages. It is exposed to significant seismic activity, which could serve to mask nuclear tests; it is believed to be close to Iran's nuclear development facility; delivery and transport of material and personnel can be effected easily through the Hormuz Strait; and Iranian enemies would hesitate to bomb the area because that would threaten the flow of a substantial percentage of the world's oil.

Google Map

Do I like the fact that Iranian nut-cases are working on the bomb -- no. But lets get real...

The Pakistani's have the bomb: their intelligence service is far more closely aligned with al-qada and the Taliban than with western interests... The father of their nuclear program is a known proliferator... [But our (current) government doesn't raise the alarm so conservatives aren't all up in arms... They talk about Iran, so like good lap-dogs, we bark.]

N. Korea has the bomb ...
India has the bomb ...
Former USSR states have nuclear material and can possibly be in a position to sell it to terrorists to create a dirty bomb.

Folks - the nuke genie is out of the bag... We're in a MAD scenario....

Do I like the fact that Iranian nut-cases are working on the bomb -- no. But lets get real...

The Pakistani's have the bomb: their intelligence service is far more closely aligned with al-qada and the Taliban than with western interests... The father of their nuclear program is a known proliferator... [But our (current) government doesn't raise the alarm so conservatives aren't all up in arms... They talk about Iran, so like good lap-dogs, we bark.]

N. Korea has the bomb ...
India has the bomb ...
Former USSR states have nuclear material and can possibly be in a position to sell it to terrorists to create a dirty bomb.

Folks - the nuke genie is out of the bag... We're in a MAD scenario. Instead of getting our panties in a bunch about a possible Iranian nuke, we should be trying to contains the ton's of nuclear material in the former soviet states and making it clear that if we or our allies is attacked we have the means to trace the material to its source -- and to obliterate the offender.

Well, in the eyes of UN nations - Israel can do no right. As for intelligence - I think the Israelis have a better handle there than just about anybody else. If they wanted to attack Lebanon just because - they would've done it, way before all those Syrian missiles were delivered there, under the nose of UN troops I might add. The Lebanon invasion was due to attack by hezbollah that killed and kidnapped Israeli soldiers.

As for Iran being noticed - they kicked the watchers out, so having underground facilities makes it kind of hard to 'notice' too much. Also keep in mind that it was Iran who wants to wipe Israel off the map, not the other way around.

The suicide bombers blow up in Isra...

Well, in the eyes of UN nations - Israel can do no right. As for intelligence - I think the Israelis have a better handle there than just about anybody else. If they wanted to attack Lebanon just because - they would've done it, way before all those Syrian missiles were delivered there, under the nose of UN troops I might add. The Lebanon invasion was due to attack by hezbollah that killed and kidnapped Israeli soldiers.

As for Iran being noticed - they kicked the watchers out, so having underground facilities makes it kind of hard to 'notice' too much. Also keep in mind that it was Iran who wants to wipe Israel off the map, not the other way around.

The suicide bombers blow up in Israel, not Gaza. The rockets get fired from Gaza... let's not point fingers at Israel as the guilty party here. If the palestinians had any brains - they'd stop this nonsense and start doing something positive for themselves, instead of this constant & pathetic attempts to try to win militarily. They have no weapons, training or brains to pull it off. Iran is a different story, if they develop nukes.

The UN bends over backwards for Israel. What UN are you talking about? As for the timing, those missiles are an added justification for their already-planned invasion. Lebanon is like Iraq to Bush; they did nothing wrong, but Israel has it in their head that they want to invade it, anyway; for the sake of demonstrating power. As for rescuing soldier, they lost 40 times as many soldiers than were originally kidnapped. That kind of math doesn't work anywhere, especially not when we're talking about human lives.

Iran, for your information, is cooperating with the watchers, so that point is moot.

Also keep in mind that it was Iran who wants to wipe Israel off the map, not the other way ...

The UN bends over backwards for Israel. What UN are you talking about? As for the timing, those missiles are an added justification for their already-planned invasion. Lebanon is like Iraq to Bush; they did nothing wrong, but Israel has it in their head that they want to invade it, anyway; for the sake of demonstrating power. As for rescuing soldier, they lost 40 times as many soldiers than were originally kidnapped. That kind of math doesn't work anywhere, especially not when we're talking about human lives.

Iran, for your information, is cooperating with the watchers, so that point is moot.

Also keep in mind that it was Iran who wants to wipe Israel off the map, not the other way around.

Bullshit! Israel wants very much to wipe Iran off the map. They see Iran as their biblical ancient enemy, and won't be satisfied until they destroy them utterly. They just need the right provocation to launch the ICBMs.

Israeli tanks flatten Palestinian homes for no reason. Israeli soldiers make excursions into Gaza and kill civilians. Israelis continue to push Palestinians further and further out of the tiny plots of land they've been grudgingly given. They can't do anything else, because they have no money; all they can do is make token gestures of occasionally blowing up part of Israeli buildins (which, of course, prompts a disproportionate response from Isreal).

Both sides are acting like children; no one is innocent, but Israel is the Big Bully, and the Palestinians are just the Geeks who have decided to break the rules to retaliate against their bully.

I would agree with you, slightly, about both sides having things to answer for. Israelis aren't bullys, they're simply better at warfare, or used to be before they started dropping the stupid leaflets pointing out to where the bombs will fall.

But where your assessment fails, at least in my view, is in the tactics used. The deal with Iran is bologna, Israel has no interest in wiping out Iran as a country, unless they develop the nukes and do as THEY (i.e. Iran) vocally stated, a number of times and in public. You seem to be dismissing that point.

The reason I think you're wrong is in the approach itself. All palestinians need to do is go over to UN and say "we drop the terrorism gig ...

I would agree with you, slightly, about both sides having things to answer for. Israelis aren't bullys, they're simply better at warfare, or used to be before they started dropping the stupid leaflets pointing out to where the bombs will fall.

But where your assessment fails, at least in my view, is in the tactics used. The deal with Iran is bologna, Israel has no interest in wiping out Iran as a country, unless they develop the nukes and do as THEY (i.e. Iran) vocally stated, a number of times and in public. You seem to be dismissing that point.

The reason I think you're wrong is in the approach itself. All palestinians need to do is go over to UN and say "we drop the terrorism gig and ask for your help to build our nation and yes, we do want the nation". Then if they actually did so - they'd not only get support of the US, but all Western countries. It clear that they shouldn't expect much from their fellow arabs, who have plenty of money and shout loudly supposedly on their behalf, yet give them squat in terms of help. But the Western countries would, I would even say that Israel would as well.

But instead, what do they do? They send their children with bomb belts on them, to die somewhere in Israel. Makes zero sense, not going to accomplish anything and not going to improve their situation, just worsen it.

If they did as I mention, which is extremely simple for them to do - then if Israel would still attack them - I'd agree with you. But that's not the case.

I'm afraid your assessment falls completely apart. One, the Israelis are very much bullies. They react with a disproportionate amount of force to individuals (Not Palestinians as a whole) taking potshots at them, and end up killing innocent Palestinians who most likely just want peace themselves. Those they don't kill, they destroy the homes and livelihoods of. That is the very definition of bullies.

The issue with Iran is very real. Iran talks about destroying Israel, but only because Israel has become a dark, disruptive force in the Middle East. What worries me more is that Israel is very quiet officially about wanting to destroy Iran, but intelligence coming out of there says very clearl...

I'm afraid your assessment falls completely apart. One, the Israelis are very much bullies. They react with a disproportionate amount of force to individuals (Not Palestinians as a whole) taking potshots at them, and end up killing innocent Palestinians who most likely just want peace themselves. Those they don't kill, they destroy the homes and livelihoods of. That is the very definition of bullies.

The issue with Iran is very real. Iran talks about destroying Israel, but only because Israel has become a dark, disruptive force in the Middle East. What worries me more is that Israel is very quiet officially about wanting to destroy Iran, but intelligence coming out of there says very clearly that the destruction of Iran is very much in their plans. That is the opposite of Iran, who speaks of destroying Israel, but no intelligence supports those blowhard statement. They are made solely for political reasons, and are as likely to be followed through as is likely that an American Politician follows through on his campaign promises.

And no, it's not as simple as going to the UN and saying that they give up terrorism. The vast majority of Palestinians are against terrorism. It's individuals, not Palestinians as a whole who are firing the shots at Israel, and from the recent American election, you should see just how hard it is for any country to control the crackpot minority in it. It is not simple; it's extremely complicated.

However, Israel itself is provoking those crackpots to attack, with their unfair, destructive incursions into Gaza. If they stopped doing that, and gave back all the territory they stole from the Palestinians, I'd wager that the terrorist attacks by Palestinian radicals would stop. So, yes, it is relatively simple to provide a solution to the situation. Israel just has to stop oppressing the Palestinians.

In other words, they're both children, but Israel is being more childish.

Did you see dancing on the streets on 9/11 there? Or those were also 'individuals'. Come on, you're being totally dishonest about how many of those people are militant. It's way more than 'individuals'.

Bullies are entities that originate attacks. One needs not be a rocket scientist to see that Israel constantly retaliates. If the palestinians did drop the terrorism bit - things would turn dramatically better for them and Israel's hands would be tied, but they do NOT. I clipped an article not long ago about an 18-year old girl, who just got married and is getting ready for the old trip upstairs after pulling the cord in Israel. Listen to what she had to say. Watch the movie Obsession,...

Did you see dancing on the streets on 9/11 there? Or those were also 'individuals'. Come on, you're being totally dishonest about how many of those people are militant. It's way more than 'individuals'.

Bullies are entities that originate attacks. One needs not be a rocket scientist to see that Israel constantly retaliates. If the palestinians did drop the terrorism bit - things would turn dramatically better for them and Israel's hands would be tied, but they do NOT. I clipped an article not long ago about an 18-year old girl, who just got married and is getting ready for the old trip upstairs after pulling the cord in Israel. Listen to what she had to say. Watch the movie Obsession, where a 3-yr old stated she didn't like the Jews. A 3-YR OLD! Don't paint palestinians as poor victims here. These people don't want peace, that's the problem.

Israel has been in existence since 1948. They aren't going anywhere. Palestinians could've easily lived in Jordan - there's plenty of room and Jordanians did at one point try it with disastrous results, again due to palestinian lunacy. Palestinians have a simple choice - either live in peace side-by-side or keep living as they do now or worse. Seems like Abbas is somewhat reasonable to deal with, but again, he's got his own problems with hamas.

Your argument about 'individuals' is false even by looking at the election - they elected terrorists to run them politically, a completely ridiculous decision, and totally the opposite of someone who would prefer peace.

I can't have any sympathy for people who resort to terrorism as a way to make a point. There are better ways to do so. I'd have more respect for them if they just started a war and fight like soldiers, not cowards who strap bombs on their women and children and send them to die.

Did you see dancing on the streets on 9/11 there? Or those were also 'individuals'. Come on, you're being totally dishonest about how many of those people are militant. It's way more than 'individuals'.

It suits your narrow view that you would see that event out of context. What those people know of America is that it gives Israel money and weapons in order that they can better kill their people, steal their land and destroy their homes and businesses. What other way can they see the US other than as pure evil? To their perspective, the Americans are equally responsible as Israel for destroying the Palestinian way of life. America is funding a foreign army to invade their lan...

Did you see dancing on the streets on 9/11 there? Or those were also 'individuals'. Come on, you're being totally dishonest about how many of those people are militant. It's way more than 'individuals'.

It suits your narrow view that you would see that event out of context. What those people know of America is that it gives Israel money and weapons in order that they can better kill their people, steal their land and destroy their homes and businesses. What other way can they see the US other than as pure evil? To their perspective, the Americans are equally responsible as Israel for destroying the Palestinian way of life. America is funding a foreign army to invade their land; in other words, making America the terrorist supporters. Of course they're going to celebrate at someone managing to score a victory against this great evil country that causes them so many woes.

But the fact that they danced and celebrated the idea of a victory against their evil enemy doesn't mean that they're all terrorists. That's a false assumption based on faulty logic. So, yes. The terrorists are just a small minority of individuals. You're doing no one any favours by buying into the lies the Israelis are spinning about the Palestinians. Remember, they are the ones who had their ancestral land stolen from them, and handed over to a bunch of infidels that they don't think deserve the land.

If someone came into your country, and stole a bunch of your most emotionally-important land and occupied it, how would you react? And when those occupiers continue to steal your nation's land again and again, and attack you mercilessly with their technologically-advanced army if you dare to retaliate, then how would you feel? Don't you think the environment those interlopers created would inspire individuals to lash out at them? Like the Palestinians?

And after this, you're calling my view 'narrow'? Look in the mirror, read some history books... going way back, in terms of who had the land etc. palestinians were getting plenty of money from the same 'evil' America when they would even consider talking about peace. America made countless efforts to make peace in the region. America restrained Israel countless times from attacking. You can make a museum exhibit with all of the US Presidents and arafat. These people simply do not want peace. America's leaders and people like you are justifying terrorism with all kinds of rhetoric, thinking they want to live peacefully. I've seen more than enough examples of that not being so and perso...

And after this, you're calling my view 'narrow'? Look in the mirror, read some history books... going way back, in terms of who had the land etc. palestinians were getting plenty of money from the same 'evil' America when they would even consider talking about peace. America made countless efforts to make peace in the region. America restrained Israel countless times from attacking. You can make a museum exhibit with all of the US Presidents and arafat. These people simply do not want peace. America's leaders and people like you are justifying terrorism with all kinds of rhetoric, thinking they want to live peacefully. I've seen more than enough examples of that not being so and personally I'm convinced - they simply do not want to live side by side with the Israelis, in peace. If countries like Iran do get their nukes put together and actually try something against Israel - it certainly won't be pretty for Israel, but it'll very likely result in the end to this back & forth, with annihilation of the other side at the same time.

Yeah, yeah. Tell it to the Crusaders. The Western world has a long history of meddling in the Middle East. That doesn't make any of it right. It would hardly be the first time that the United States played both sides against the middle. But the fact of the matter is that the US is allowing Israel to be an oppressor of the Palestinian people. And people like you are justifying apartheid with your rhetoric, claiming that God himself placed the Israelis there.

Israel made it not pretty for Israel. They took a questionable action by the British Empire in creating their nation, and turned the rightful indigenous people of that land into second-class citizens; people that it was okay to kill, to ...

Yeah, yeah. Tell it to the Crusaders. The Western world has a long history of meddling in the Middle East. That doesn't make any of it right. It would hardly be the first time that the United States played both sides against the middle. But the fact of the matter is that the US is allowing Israel to be an oppressor of the Palestinian people. And people like you are justifying apartheid with your rhetoric, claiming that God himself placed the Israelis there.

Israel made it not pretty for Israel. They took a questionable action by the British Empire in creating their nation, and turned the rightful indigenous people of that land into second-class citizens; people that it was okay to kill, to steal property from; to suppress the rights of. They learned well from the Americans — what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians is just like what Americans did to the First Nations people of North America.

You can deny the atrocities of the Israelis all you want, but that won't stop it from happening. Only calling Israel out on it's human rights abuses will stand a chance of doing that. Then, when the Israeli atrocities stop, the retaliations by the Palestinians against them will stop.

And you can stop the whining about the UN "picking" on Israel. Do I ever wish the UN was doing that! They're treating Israel like a spoiled child, just like the US.

That's the whole point. I'm not[b] an idealogue. I have no prejudice or favouritism toward either country, and looking at the situation objectively shows me that they're both in the wrong, but Israel is acting worse, and it's entirely in Israel's power to end this stand off. The Palestinians don't have the power to stop it. They don't have an organized government, capable of dealing with those criminals in their rapidly-shrinking country who are lashing out desperately at their oppressor. Israel just has to stop taking land away from the Palestinians; open the blockades and end the embargos. Give back the land they have taken since the 1969 war.

The problem with your viewpoint is [b]...

That's the whole point. I'm [b]not[b] an idealogue. I have no prejudice or favouritism toward either country, and looking at the situation objectively shows me that they're both in the wrong, but Israel is acting worse, and it's entirely in Israel's power to end this stand off. The Palestinians don't have the power to stop it. They don't have an organized government, capable of dealing with those criminals in their rapidly-shrinking country who are lashing out desperately at their oppressor. Israel just has to stop taking land away from the Palestinians; open the blockades and end the embargos. Give back the land they have taken since the 1969 war.

The problem with your viewpoint is that you've got this "Oh, gosh! It's Israel; the Holy Land! They can do no wrong!" attitude that's blinding you to the real situation. Israel is committing human rights violations against the Palestinians, and while the UN waves their finger at them about 30% of the time, America pats them on the back and encourages them to continue being bullies.

That's the problem from a non-idealogue's point-of-view

So yes, I'm impartial. You need to realize that you aren't.

Right, I could make the exact same statement, although it would be just as inaccurate as yours.

I don't have inside into palestinian side, that is true... but as I stated before - sending one's kids to blow themselves up in some mall will never draw any sympathy from me. It's as simple as that. Being a parent - I can't even fathom how these people can lower themselves to such level.

If you look at the stats of when they had truce - who usually restarts the reciprocal cycle of violence? How many times has arafat broken his word? Do you see Israelis disagreeing within themselves? OMG, with 40+ parties, it's unrea...

So yes, I'm impartial. You need to realize that you aren't.

Right, I could make the exact same statement, although it would be just as inaccurate as yours.

I don't have inside into palestinian side, that is true... but as I stated before - sending one's kids to blow themselves up in some mall will never draw any sympathy from me. It's as simple as that. Being a parent - I can't even fathom how these people can lower themselves to such level.

If you look at the stats of when they had truce - who usually restarts the reciprocal cycle of violence? How many times has arafat broken his word? Do you see Israelis disagreeing within themselves? OMG, with 40+ parties, it's unreal and yet do you see them killing each other like hamas kill fatah and vice versa? These are the same people and they can't even live among their own, how do you expect them to live with others in peace?

You can defend them all day long, but the above statements are factual and even though I wouldn't go as far as to say that one side is completely innocent while the other is completely not - it's not that difficult to see who is doing what and why... at least for some of us.

American parents can't control their kids any better than Palestinians parents can control theirs. Look at what happens in America when kids are raised in substandard conditions. They form criminal gangs. The same thing happens in Palestine; the only difference is that the entire country has substandard conditions. The difference is that American youth gangs only have vague ideas of the source of their misery. In Palestine, they know exactly what the source of their misery is; they come invading; killing people, and bulldozing homes regularly. Add to that fact that a handful of charismatic people are feeding these kids violent rhetoric, and promises of glory and reward for self-sacrifice, an...

American parents can't control their kids any better than Palestinians parents can control theirs. Look at what happens in America when kids are raised in substandard conditions. They form criminal gangs. The same thing happens in Palestine; the only difference is that the entire country has substandard conditions. The difference is that American youth gangs only have vague ideas of the source of their misery. In Palestine, they know exactly what the source of their misery is; they come invading; killing people, and bulldozing homes regularly. Add to that fact that a handful of charismatic people are feeding these kids violent rhetoric, and promises of glory and reward for self-sacrifice, and you have a situation where kids of any nationality would act the same way. You better believe that American youth gangs would act the very same way in the same situation.

The fact that they don't have your sympathy is an example of your bias and coldness.

As for who broke the truce more? Yes, take a look. The truces were broken more by the Israelis, by expanding their colonial efforts, stealing more land from the Palestinians. So while the Palestinians may have fired the first shot, it was the Isrealis that instigated it.

And yes, the Israelis fight each other. Those sects are very aggressive. But they're even more aggressive against the Israelis. Haven't you seen the recent news articles of Israelis going in and attacking Palestinian farmers without any provocation? These are the "peaceful" people you think are so wonderful? Bah!.

You can attack them all day long; all that it proves is that you are definitely biased. Any delusions you have that you are objective should be dropped right now, because you are highly prejudiced against Palestinians. You, my friend, are a Zionist.

RecordSage said:

I could say the same thing about you, just on the other side.

No, you can't. I have no connections on either side of the issue. I am unbiased, and from that perspective, the Israelis are causing the lion's share of the problems.

You won't face the reality of your bias, and are projecting it on to others, accusing them of bias when they are just giving you straight, uncooked information.

Additionally, Anecdotes are not data; stories that people tell you are statistically insignificant, and generally unreflective of the whole.

RecordSage, you are hopelessly biased, and considering your attitude, unlikely to ever overcome your bias, so you should just accept it. C...

RecordSage said:

I could say the same thing about you, just on the other side.

No, you can't. I have no connections on either side of the issue. I am unbiased, and from that perspective, the Israelis are causing the lion's share of the problems.

You won't face the reality of your bias, and are projecting it on to others, accusing them of bias when they are just giving you straight, uncooked information.

Additionally, Anecdotes are not data; stories that people tell you are statistically insignificant, and generally unreflective of the whole.

RecordSage, you are hopelessly biased, and considering your attitude, unlikely to ever overcome your bias, so you should just accept it. Calling objective data biased yourself only works for FoxNews; and no one with any sense takes them seriously.

And JoelC? You're an ignorant prat.

When? When they elected hamas! When they come out and treat suicide bombers as heroes, when they brain-wash their kids against the Jews in kindergartens, when they kill their own, when they send their kids to die by killing others as if that was some sort of heroic deed, when they go out and kill each other, just because it's a different faction.

Show me when palestinians as people have denounced terrorism? I can show you a recent article about an 18-yr old girl, who just got married and she's proudly getting ready to go and die somewhere in Israel.

I don't 'hate' the palestinians as people, but I completely disagree with their tactics to advance their agenda. You think my perception i...

When? When they elected hamas! When they come out and treat suicide bombers as heroes, when they brain-wash their kids against the Jews in kindergartens, when they kill their own, when they send their kids to die by killing others as if that was some sort of heroic deed, when they go out and kill each other, just because it's a different faction.

Show me when palestinians as people have denounced terrorism? I can show you a recent article about an 18-yr old girl, who just got married and she's proudly getting ready to go and die somewhere in Israel.

I don't 'hate' the palestinians as people, but I completely disagree with their tactics to advance their agenda. You think my perception is 'twisted'... everything I stated above is factual.

You can call Israelis 'bullies', it's probably applicable to a degree, but it's silly to call them terrorists, although obviously you can call them whatever you want, doesn't change the facts of what actually is happening there.

As for your stupid American comment - well, I guess 'ignorant' could be added to 'stupid', but that about sums that up.

So you still haven't noticed how the wonderful news media only finds the radical and lunatic segments of any foreign society to show to their people. The regular people who want to live in peace are boring, and bad for their media company's bottom line.

I don't care what you've seen on the media; the world of the media isn't real. It's a carefully filtered and manipulated world view that is intended to get their company the most views; and people who want to blow themselves up get viewers.

The people in Palestine reject terrorism every day. You just don't see it, because it isn't good script. The media in Israel and America has an ulterior motive in portraying the Palestinians as a bunch o...

So you still haven't noticed how the wonderful news media only finds the radical and lunatic segments of any foreign society to show to their people. The regular people who want to live in peace are boring, and bad for their media company's bottom line.

I don't care what you've seen on the media; the world of the media isn't real. It's a carefully filtered and manipulated world view that is intended to get their company the most views; and people who want to blow themselves up get viewers.

The people in Palestine reject terrorism every day. You just don't see it, because it isn't good script. The media in Israel and America has an ulterior motive in portraying the Palestinians as a bunch of bloodthirsty terrorists. You know, the Americans did that with the native people around in 1830's; and now it's Israel's turn to do it to their indigenous people. Anything to clean out the rightful owners of the land, so they can continue their rabid imperial conquests.

As for the Palestinians voting for Hamas, you apparently didn't bother to look into the situation. The Palestinians only had 2 real choices; the Fatah party; which had squandered money, kept their people in poverty, and basically accomplished nothing to help them, or Hamas; a group that hasn't screwed them over... yet. It was a vote of desperation; not an embracing of terrorism. If your violent uncle rescues you from your deadbeat mom who sold you for smack, you'd look to that uncle for answers, now wouldn't you.

You really should stop commenting on the Middle East. You have no idea what's really going on there. Living on other people's anecdotes and propaganda is just going to make you look foolish every time.

The people in Palestine reject terrorism every day. You just don't see it, because it isn't good script.

Show me some evidence of such. Don't just throw words on the table - show me some examples of such.

As for the media carefully doing whatever - explain how that works. If they're showing us missiles being fired in Gaza at Israeli towns - what exactly is that supposed to represent? Are they just hunting and missing somehow? When they show people on the streets marching by the hundreds, if not more, many of which are dressed in ski masks with RPGs and other weaponry, carrying portraits of a recent suicide bomber - is that some sort of peace march? Or is that a Hollywoo...

The people in Palestine reject terrorism every day. You just don't see it, because it isn't good script.

Show me some evidence of such. Don't just throw words on the table - show me some examples of such.

As for the media carefully doing whatever - explain how that works. If they're showing us missiles being fired in Gaza at Israeli towns - what exactly is that supposed to represent? Are they just hunting and missing somehow? When they show people on the streets marching by the hundreds, if not more, many of which are dressed in ski masks with RPGs and other weaponry, carrying portraits of a recent suicide bomber - is that some sort of peace march? Or is that a Hollywood stunt of some sort?

If your violent uncle rescues you from your deadbeat mom who sold you
for smack, you'd look to that uncle for answers, now wouldn't you.

So has the 'violent uncle' improve anything? ANYTHING? Where's the 'rescue' part? At least you're not completely delusional and relize that hamas is violent. fatah is certainly no peaceful chickens, as we've seen time and again in their internal battles (or was that also not true, according to your ever-seeing and every-knowing being?). Looking at their leaders when they speak publicly - Mr. Abbas certainly seems a lot more rational, although clearly pro his people. That I can respect. hamas doesn't have anyone of that stature. Perhaps they do and keep them in secret somewhere... but that won't score them any points from anyone.

You really should stop commenting on the Middle East. You have no idea
what's really going on there. Living on other people's anecdotes and
propaganda is just going to make you look foolish every time.

I don't know where you live, but I still live in a free country, so if I feel like commenting... on any topic - I will. I realize from your perspective you'd rather I didn't, but everything I brought to the table was factual.

Go to Palestine, and you'll see it everywhere, if you don't believe me.

And again, you're pigeonholing an entire nation of people based on the actions of a few in the lunatic fringe. Until you stop doing that, I'm not going to give you anything. Or maybe I'll decide to judge all Americans based on the actions of the members of the Westboro Baptist Church?

Or are you going to throw in your ignorance of Palestinian culture as your defence for blatant prejudice. When you've got something other than cries of "Foolish", "Propaganda" and "Show me" (typical Republican attempts to sidetrack from the issue at hand), come talk to me. Until then, you're just another racist freak. You've been given th...

Go to Palestine, and you'll see it everywhere, if you don't believe me.

And again, you're pigeonholing an entire nation of people based on the actions of a few in the lunatic fringe. Until you stop doing that, I'm not going to give you anything. Or maybe I'll decide to judge all Americans based on the actions of the members of the Westboro Baptist Church?

Or are you going to throw in your ignorance of Palestinian culture as your defence for blatant prejudice. When you've got something other than cries of "Foolish", "Propaganda" and "Show me" (typical Republican attempts to sidetrack from the issue at hand), come talk to me. Until then, you're just another racist freak. You've been given the information contradicting your statements, but you act like nothing's been given to you. Repugnant Party Denial can only go on so long.

Sharon's Terror Child: How the Likud Bloc Mid-wifed the Birth of Hamas
[i]
Hamas is considered one of Israel's greatest threats, but the Islamic terrorist organization found its beginnings in the misguided Israeli effort to encourage the rise of a religious alternative that would undermine the popularity of the Palestine Liberation Organization and Yasir Arafat.

The strategy resulted in the birth of Hamas which rose from these Islamic roots. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was a member of the government when the policy was developed in the late 1970s.

Although Sharon and his Likud (formerly Herut Party[b]...

Sharon's Terror Child: How the Likud Bloc Mid-wifed the Birth of Hamas

Hamas is considered one of Israel's greatest threats, but the Islamic terrorist organization found its beginnings in the misguided Israeli effort to encourage the rise of a religious alternative that would undermine the popularity of the Palestine Liberation Organization and Yasir Arafat.

The strategy resulted in the birth of Hamas which rose from these Islamic roots. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was a member of the government when the policy was developed in the late 1970s.

Although Sharon and his Likud (formerly Herut Party) government colleagues could not anticipate that the Islamic leaders they backed would eventually evolve into Hamas and suicide bombings, the two have benefited from each other's extremism over the years.

Be careful what you wish for might be the case for many and for others it might be check out your facts first before your Zionist emotions run away with you.

@ JoelC

from Darkforce I don't call you names; I simply use the labels that you've earned for yourself with your racist comments.

But you most certainly DID hijack this thread which was supposed to be about the possiblilty of IRAN having nuclear weapons or a recent test of one. If you want to talk crap about zionists or anti-semites then take it eleswhere. I was actually looking forward to some new information on this from others until you and your tripe showed up with your soap box.

It was I that first mentioned in a one liner

Israel doesn't know if it has nukes or not, officially.

Who do you think that you are apart from Real ...

@ JoelC

from Darkforce I don't call you names; I simply use the labels that you've earned for yourself with your racist comments.

But you most certainly DID hijack this thread which was supposed to be about the possiblilty of IRAN having nuclear weapons or a recent test of one. If you want to talk crap about zionists or anti-semites then take it eleswhere. I was actually looking forward to some new information on this from others until you and your tripe showed up with your soap box.

It was I that first mentioned in a one liner

Israel doesn't know if it has nukes or not, officially.

Who do you think that you are apart from Real Name: n/a Location: unknown Joined: 10-23-2008 ? What contribution have you made that gives you the notion that you can dictate to us how we should conduct. You have NO clips, 7 'Pops' and 8 comments. Have you been banned previously and are now back to make more trouble? Certainly your attempts to deliberately taunt clippers is noteworthy, don't you think? Might you not bugger off back to under whatever stone under whatever hole that you came from?
Ratcatcher2

@RecordSage

JoelC has as much right to say what he wants as you do. And as for your

Mine was ...

Who do you think that you are apart from Real Name: n/a Location: unknown Joined: 10-23-2008 ? What contribution have you made that gives you the notion that you can dictate to us how we should conduct. You have NO clips, 7 'Pops' and 8 comments. Have you been banned previously and are now back to make more trouble? Certainly your attempts to deliberately taunt clippers is noteworthy, don't you think?

Nowhere did I question his right to give his opinion. I queried his opinion as I am more than entitled to do so.

I have loads of clips, pops a...

@RecordSage

JoelC has as much right to say what he wants as you do. And as for your

Mine was ...

Who do you think that you are apart from Real Name: n/a Location: unknown Joined: 10-23-2008 ? What contribution have you made that gives you the notion that you can dictate to us how we should conduct. You have NO clips, 7 'Pops' and 8 comments. Have you been banned previously and are now back to make more trouble? Certainly your attempts to deliberately taunt clippers is noteworthy, don't you think?

Nowhere did I question his right to give his opinion. I queried his opinion as I am more than entitled to do so.

I have loads of clips, pops and comments. Again he has NO clips, 7 pops and 8 comments and he attempts to dictate how we should comment. Is there any part of this that you fail to understand? What part is lost in translation into russian and back to english?

Has your friend being barred previously? Do you agree with his deliberate taunts?