#

To learn that it is not good to compare themselves to others. All will be judged individually on their own merits, not as a group on a comparison basis!
#

To learn that a rich person is not the one who has the most, but is one who needs the least.
#

To learn that it only takes a few seconds to open profound wounds in persons we love, and that it takes many years to heal them.
#

To learn to forgive by practicing forgiveness.
#

To learn that there are persons that love them dearly, but simply do not know how to express or show their feelings.
#

To learn that money can buy everything but happiness.
#

To learn that two people can look at the same thing and see it totally differently.
#
...

#

To learn that it is not good to compare themselves to others. All will be judged individually on their own merits, not as a group on a comparison basis!
#

To learn that a rich person is not the one who has the most, but is one who needs the least.
#

To learn that it only takes a few seconds to open profound wounds in persons we love, and that it takes many years to heal them.
#

To learn to forgive by practicing forgiveness.
#

To learn that there are persons that love them dearly, but simply do not know how to express or show their feelings.
#

To learn that money can buy everything but happiness.
#

To learn that two people can look at the same thing and see it totally differently.
#

To learn that a true friend is someone who knows everything about them…and likes them anyway.
#

To learn that it is not always enough that they be forgiven by others, but that they have to forgive themselves."

Oortcloud nobody is forcing their God or Santa on you, but that Santa is a wise dude, too. I still haven't figured out how he's able to deliver all those gifts in one night

Oortcloud what makes you thinik you have any idea of what I think when I say 'God'? You are the one taking 'Interview with God' to mean something literal. The statements made in the clip are values that some of us find admirable - caring, forgiving, happy, honest. You just assume I think somebody spent some time with God one day and took some really good notes.

When I went outside the other morning, the temperature, the sun, the grass, the smell...it all just came together into a beautiful day - the best morning that ...

Oortcloud nobody is forcing their God or Santa on you, but that Santa is a wise dude, too. I still haven't figured out how he's able to deliver all those gifts in one night

Oortcloud what makes you thinik you have any idea of what I think when I say 'God'? You are the one taking 'Interview with God' to mean something literal. The statements made in the clip are values that some of us find admirable - caring, forgiving, happy, honest. You just assume I think somebody spent some time with God one day and took some really good notes.

When I went outside the other morning, the temperature, the sun, the grass, the smell...it all just came together into a beautiful day - the best morning that I could remember. Just then I thought, 'God'. I didn't attribute that feeling at the time to somebody I imagine looking down with almighty wisdom. To me, 'God' is 'good'. God can be 'joy'. When a mother gives birth to a baby. 'God' defined this way does not have to compete with the great accomplishments of man or have to be defined by the works of any man, as you put it.

You call it pathetic and sickening. Those are pretty harsh words about someone based on a notion that's dead wrong. I'm guessing that you're probably not normally hateful, or bitter, or ignorant enough to believe the words from this clip were the end result of an actual interview. This is your superstition, not mine.

Skwirl, this clip is absolutely fine. God or no God, there is nothing unfortunate about realizing that life is short and we shouldn't take it for granted or reminding someone that their impact on others is important and meaningful. This clip says more about you as a quality human being. This has nothing to do with how rational you are. How someone could possibly think that this is 'a rather unfortunate showing' in the big scheme of things...... is rather unfortunate.

How someone could possibly think that this is 'a rather unfortunate showing' in the big scheme of things...... is rather unfortunate.

In the REALLY big scheme of things? No, I agree it isn't that sad. It isn't as though skwirl is some life-long dear friend of mine. But in the REALLY big scheme not much matters at all, really. (Enter The Existential Void)

However, in the here and now, assuming that we have some semblance of agreement as to what that is (and overlooking the disjointed time displacement of the venue) I did, and do, find it unfortunate to read the verbal meltdown of an individual who I felt was generally ...

How someone could possibly think that this is 'a rather unfortunate showing' in the big scheme of things...... is rather unfortunate.

In the REALLY big scheme of things? No, I agree it isn't that sad. It isn't as though skwirl is some life-long dear friend of mine. But in the REALLY big scheme not much matters at all, really. (Enter The Existential Void)

However, in the here and now, assuming that we have some semblance of agreement as to what that is (and overlooking the disjointed time displacement of the venue) I did, and do, find it unfortunate to read the verbal meltdown of an individual who I felt was generally reasonable and in control of his thoughts and expressive actions, even in the face of an admittedly somewhat but not overly caustic comment by one who is generally much more cogent, too. I may not always or even often agree with skwirl, but he has never struck me as being as much of an ass as some make an effort to display in every comment. Here, he did, and that is genuinely unfortunate. I felt he was better than that.

With god in or out the advice/wisdom stands up equally well!

I must agree fully with Righthand. In this regard, the attribution by the faithful of the clipped wisdom to an actual conversation with GOD is like the overtaking of The Golden Rule by some who believe that it is some great tenent of religion or some god's word, when in fact it is simple logic in force. In that, I must agree with Ooort's meaning, if not exactly his chosen expression of it.

To learn that two people can look at the same thing and see it totally differently

Are we all happy now?

alanocu : Oortcloud nobody is forcing their God or Santa on you,

Actually, they are. Or do you forget the inscription on American currency, the mangling of the Pledge, and laws passed against homosexuality, abortion, the fight to stop ignorance in ID, and on and on. Oh, and don't forget about Dec 25, but I rather enjoy the Christmas season. I was merely using the mythology of Sana as an example to that of god.

alanocu : The statements made in the clip are values that some of us find admirable

Which I did not deny. I only pointed out the obvious delusion that people actually read this and think "wow, that god is so wise". It took a human mind to r...

alanocu : Oortcloud nobody is forcing their God or Santa on you,

Actually, they are. Or do you forget the inscription on American currency, the mangling of the Pledge, and laws passed against homosexuality, abortion, the fight to stop ignorance in ID, and on and on. Oh, and don't forget about Dec 25, but I rather enjoy the Christmas season. I was merely using the mythology of Sana as an example to that of god.

alanocu : The statements made in the clip are values that some of us find admirable

Which I did not deny. I only pointed out the obvious delusion that people actually read this and think "wow, that god is so wise". It took a human mind to rationalize those thoughts. Unless someone has the official god letterhead that it all came in on? Anyone?

skwirlinator : Oortcloud: Your hatred is showing - better cover up.

Skwirl, it was your platitudes showing, I merely pointed them out. It was your option to cover them, but you chose to defend and flaunt. That your response was a fervor filled rant (I can just picture the spittle flying) only supports my claim of how pathetic it is to take the work of mankind and heap them onto that of a god.

I have no hatred of god, skwirl, he doesn't exist. People believe because they choose to believe. I only pointed out the obvious. There was actually some good stuff in those points, too bad they were prostituted to a bronze age myth.

Of course, anyone showing me that they were actually spoken or written by god and I'll humbly apologize and say nothing further. But until that time I'll continue to point out the dishonesty of emotional appeals like this.

Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. Anger will eventually eat you alive. It is letting someone or something occupy space in your head rent free.

But why is it that so many who believe that they believe are full of anger?

Why are they so convinced they are right always. These are often the same people who were absolutely convinced that Bush was the very best and now don't defend him when the evidence shows he is the worst EVER! This is the same conviction that they bring to religion. Never a thought that they could have it all wrong!

If god was not on their side, would they we so convinced as to their argument. Would they be able to carry their argument without the moral...

Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. Anger will eventually eat you alive. It is letting someone or something occupy space in your head rent free.

But why is it that so many who believe that they believe are full of anger?

Why are they so convinced they are right always. These are often the same people who were absolutely convinced that Bush was the very best and now don't defend him when the evidence shows he is the worst EVER! This is the same conviction that they bring to religion. Never a thought that they could have it all wrong!

If god was not on their side, would they we so convinced as to their argument. Would they be able to carry their argument without the moral backup. God or no god, let them consider how wrong they were about recent politics and maybe they might be a bit more open minded. Just a bit!

All is number-Pythagoras

GOD TRUST KARMA HEAL EXACT SMART
764 2 9 312 2 19 41 8 513 561 32 1 41 92
17 17 17 17 17 17
8 8 8 8 8 8

CREATOR UNITY MERLIN MONK MYSTIC EYE
39 5 12 69 35927 45 9395 465 2 47 1293 575
35 26 35 17 26 17
8 8 8 8 8 8

Other 8 words...
BRAIN SPHERE BUBBLE IMAGE MIRAGE
MASON LADDER TABOO CLOCK CANCER

A link...
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1379456

And quote from that page...
"The Pythagoreans believe...

All is number-Pythagoras

GOD TRUST KARMA HEAL EXACT SMART
764 2 9 312 2 19 41 8 513 561 32 1 41 92
17 17 17 17 17 17
8 8 8 8 8 8

CREATOR UNITY MERLIN MONK MYSTIC EYE
39 5 12 69 35927 45 9395 465 2 47 1293 575
35 26 35 17 26 17
8 8 8 8 8 8

Other 8 words...
BRAIN SPHERE BUBBLE IMAGE MIRAGE
MASON LADDER TABOO CLOCK CANCER

A link...
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1379456

And quote from that page...
"The Pythagoreans believed that "GOD IS NUMBER" and that the highest and most spiritual numbers were the natural numbers, that is, the non-negative integers starting from 0." (Bold letters by me for clarity of point)

Oortcloud,
The link was to make the point that there have been & are people who say "GOD IS NUMBER" or they see evidence for something behind the universe/creation demonstrated in what numbers represent.
The words I gave at the start were just to demonstrate there are other ways to view things & stimulate some thinking. I believe these are your words...
"I hope to point out some inconsistencies in common misconceptions. In the very least, get people to at least THINK about what it is they believe rather than just accept it because its always what they've been told."
I enjoy being the stimulator as well as the stimulatee here at Clipmarks & I find numbers to be a universal langua...

Oortcloud,
The link was to make the point that there have been & are people who say "GOD IS NUMBER" or they see evidence for something behind the universe/creation demonstrated in what numbers represent.
The words I gave at the start were just to demonstrate there are other ways to view things & stimulate some thinking. I believe these are your words...
"I hope to point out some inconsistencies in common misconceptions. In the very least, get people to at least THINK about what it is they believe rather than just accept it because its always what they've been told."
I enjoy being the stimulator as well as the stimulatee here at Clipmarks & I find numbers to be a universal language & a great way to break the ice.
Here is one link & clip to how the words were converted to number & background about numerology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerology

English letter numeric values

A = 1 J = 10 (1) S = 19 (10) (1)
B = 2 K = 11 (2) T = 20 (2)
C = 3 L = 12 (3) U = 21 (3)
D = 4 M = 13 (4) V = 22 (4)
E = 5 N = 14 (5) W = 23 (5)
F = 6 O = 15 (6) X = 24 (6)
G = 7 P = 16 (7) Y = 25 (7)
H = 8 Q = 17 (8) Z = 26 (8)
I = 9 R = 18 (9)

Another link...
http://www.halexandria.org/dward332.htm
And clip...

8 represents material accomplishment -- money, material freedom, business, high finance, control, power, success, achievement, recognition, profit, executive ability, management, authority, fairness, and responsibility.

The basic thought/axiom of 8 is "AS ABOVE, SO BELOW". This concept is spoken of...
THE PRINCIPLE OF CORRESPONDENCE
@ http://www.kybalion.org/kybalion.asp?chapter=II
I would encourage a read of the 7 Hermetic Principles listed briefly as these all tie into the deepest understanding of the principles governing the universe & have their correspondence in #. For the deepest understanding I've ever found regarding numbers read
THE MEANING & PHILOSOPHY OF NUMBERS by Leonard Bosman.

Oh. Numerology. Right there with Astrology and Tarot cards and chicken bone reading. Its been awhile since I actually saw someone present this as some sort of actual fact and didn't recognize it right away.

It's obvious that you are misled to be following the wrong path of numerology. After all, Hermione Granger showed us in "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban" that Arithmancy was far superior.

In this link you will find the key phrase that sets this science far apart from those that dabble in reality (emphasis mine) :

It is no surprise why Hermione loves arithma...

Oh. Numerology. Right there with Astrology and Tarot cards and chicken bone reading. Its been awhile since I actually saw someone present this as some sort of actual fact and didn't recognize it right away.

It's obvious that you are misled to be following the wrong path of numerology. After all, Hermione Granger showed us in "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban" that Arithmancy was far superior.

In this link you will find the key phrase that sets this science far apart from those that dabble in reality (emphasis mine) :

It is no surprise why Hermione loves arithmancy so much: it requires a
good deal of thought and calculation to find the right numbers, and
Hermione is always up to such a challenge.

How could Hermione be wrong?

Oorcloud, all I can say is that nothing about my comments intended to persuade you towards God or anything else. I am sorry if anything I said was offensive in that regard. I can't speak for anyone else though. Your arguments will hold much more water in the future and will encourage more meaningful responses if you avoid throwing around words like 'sickening' or 'pathetic', unless you're wanting a good throw-down. I try to be respectful of everyone's beliefs, just as I sensitive to your feelings about the content of this clip.

BartendingBear the Existential Void in my head and having to go to work, and not wanting to get the dictionary and encyclopedia to understand your venue ...

Oorcloud, all I can say is that nothing about my comments intended to persuade you towards God or anything else. I am sorry if anything I said was offensive in that regard. I can't speak for anyone else though. Your arguments will hold much more water in the future and will encourage more meaningful responses if you avoid throwing around words like 'sickening' or 'pathetic', unless you're wanting a good throw-down. I try to be respectful of everyone's beliefs, just as I sensitive to your feelings about the content of this clip.

BartendingBear the Existential Void in my head and having to go to work, and not wanting to get the dictionary and encyclopedia to understand your venue of dis or dat prevents me from decoding your comment. I will be happy to say that I was wrong and you are right, cuz I say that often and don't mind saying it now.

alanocu, Sorry if you don't like my choice of words, but it doesn't make them any less accurate. It is
a sickness of the mind when people attribute the works of mankind to
their god as a means of validation. It is a matter of self deception
meant to reaffirm belief.

Does the fact that what I pointed out being true mean anything? Did god open the heavens and speak these words as holy anectdotes? Or did a creative human mind, in an attempt to venerate a belief, create these verses and then attribute them to a personal version of god?

Why does god need to be affirmed so much by the works of mankind? This clip just shows us how easily people do it and how readily they accept it....

alanocu, Sorry if you don't like my choice of words, but it doesn't make them any less accurate. It is
a sickness of the mind when people attribute the works of mankind to
their god as a means of validation. It is a matter of self deception
meant to reaffirm belief.

Does the fact that what I pointed out being true mean anything? Did god open the heavens and speak these words as holy anectdotes? Or did a creative human mind, in an attempt to venerate a belief, create these verses and then attribute them to a personal version of god?

Why does god need to be affirmed so much by the works of mankind? This clip just shows us how easily people do it and how readily they accept it. That no one has argued against what I pointed out but instead focused on deflecting the topic to how I said it should be a real eye opener.

I believe we are creative because we are made in the image of God. All wisdom, knowledge and truth comes from God.

Or god was made in the image of man - why else would he have so many human characteristics such as anger, jealousy, love, revenge, pettyness, arrogance, insecurity, desire, etc. When you read the bible and take note of the actions and emotions that describe the god in there you quickly find he is described as a heartless, cruel, immature, and tempermental dictator - kinda like many of the conquerors of the era ...

All knowledge, wisdom and truth come from mankind and then is attributed to an idea of god in order re-affirm belief and to add a dimension of awe an...

I believe we are creative because we are made in the image of God. All wisdom, knowledge and truth comes from God.

Or god was made in the image of man - why else would he have so many human characteristics such as anger, jealousy, love, revenge, pettyness, arrogance, insecurity, desire, etc. When you read the bible and take note of the actions and emotions that describe the god in there you quickly find he is described as a heartless, cruel, immature, and tempermental dictator - kinda like many of the conquerors of the era ...

All knowledge, wisdom and truth come from mankind and then is attributed to an idea of god in order re-affirm belief and to add a dimension of awe and believability - kinda like this very clip did. Ironically, believers must humanize god to make him acceptable.

Perhaps mankind has made up these abstract thoughts to keep us salves to religion

Or they are simple characteristics of humanity brought about through psychological evolution because a tighter society is more likely to survive than a group of people that lack any unity? If parents felt no bond to their children then they would leave them after birth. If people did not show kindness to others then they would not recieve it in turn. If no one forgave those that wronged them then society would simply fall apart. There is nothing godly about this, its just plain human nature that helps us to survive.

If you have ever experienced any of these things, you are either a slave to religion or you are a child of God.

That makes about as much sense as saying "if you like the taste of tuna/ketchup/apples/corn then you are a slave to religion or a child of god" .. its assigning credit to a god simply to make it sound better.

How did I know the Zen of it all would totally throw you

Hmm... are you sure you used this in the correct context? My dictionary says that zen is :

A school of Mahayana Buddhism that asserts that enlightenment can be attained through meditation, self-contemplation, and intuition rather than through faith and devotion and that is practiced mainly in China, Japan, Korea, and Vietnam. Also called Zen Buddhism. (Emphasis Mine)

Isn't this contrary to common biblical religious ideals? I guess this supports my original claim that people tend to proscribe human ideals and accomplishments to a deity as a way to validate their beliefs.

However, I do understand th...

How did I know the Zen of it all would totally throw you

Hmm... are you sure you used this in the correct context? My dictionary says that zen is :

A school of Mahayana Buddhism that asserts that enlightenment can be attained through meditation, self-contemplation, and intuition rather than through faith and devotion and that is practiced mainly in China, Japan, Korea, and Vietnam. Also called Zen Buddhism. (Emphasis Mine)

Isn't this contrary to common biblical religious ideals? I guess this supports my original claim that people tend to proscribe human ideals and accomplishments to a deity as a way to validate their beliefs.

However, I do understand the nebulous "zen-like" effect that you were trying to allude to. But really, isn't that just one more example of how people try to validate their beliefs by simply applying warm goody, goody, feelings to their god? I wonder why god requires so much support and cannot stand upon his own, being almighty and all.

Honestly, the next time you hear someone attributing something to god, stop and think for a moment. Take "god" out of the equation and see if there might not be another source to give that credit. Why is god's involvment always attributed, but never directly earned?

You see the same thing when a mother hears something negative about their children. The first response is always denial if its bad, and acceptance if its good. Why? Because they are biased to think that way. But is it truth? Think about it. That would be a bit more "zen-like".

sozoman said:

Why do they work so hard to try and prove something doesn't exist?

100% of society used to believe that disease and mental retardation was the result of demons and evil spirits. 100% of society used to believe that the earth was flat. 100% of humanity used to believe that the moon emitted, rather than reflected, light.

A bunch of people all believing the wrong thing doesn't make what they believe truthful.

Also, you've fabricated the belief that non believers work to prove god doesn't exist. Believers make the claim that god exists and then attempt to alter the rules of society based upon that belief. Non believers work hard to point out how obvious the claim is utt...

sozoman said:

Why do they work so hard to try and prove something doesn't exist?

100% of society used to believe that disease and mental retardation was the result of demons and evil spirits. 100% of society used to believe that the earth was flat. 100% of humanity used to believe that the moon emitted, rather than reflected, light.

A bunch of people all believing the wrong thing doesn't make what they believe truthful.

Also, you've fabricated the belief that non believers work to prove god doesn't exist. Believers make the claim that god exists and then attempt to alter the rules of society based upon that belief. Non believers work hard to point out how obvious the claim is utterly false in order keep believer's deluded ideas of morality and mythology out of non believer's lives. If the claim is proven undependable then the nature of god (if it exists) remains unknown and those that claim divine knowledge are obviously self deluded or lying. Take your pick.

90% of the world may believe in some supernatural creator, but they certainly do not all believe in the same creator. Those various beliefs also opposed to one another. Your statistic to argue for god drops, in reality, to about 50 - 60% of the world - and even those that believe in the biblical god cannot even agree on the details.

The rest of us know we didn't get here by accident.

Then you are self deluded. No one knows how we got here. Some can simply refuse to believe anything other than what they want to believe or were indoctrinated with, but others can surmise the most reasonable and logical events that led to the beginning of life and then follow the evidence that shows the evolution of our species.

I'll follow the clues and evidence that so often pans out to examination rather than believe bronze age mythology that is so often proven wrong and inaccurate.