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wildcatfollowshare
4-18-2008 7:32 AM
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wildcat says:
the question of course is the following:what does it mean for humanity to have a common ongoing human adventure? do we have one at present?
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4-19-2008 6:44 AM
Johanna_G
An ethics(!?) professor said:

consumer-driven eugenics
I see, the drive to consume babies is fine.
He said:

motivated by the free play of human desire
I see, that's an ethic principle, dear Mr professor of ethics!
He said:

motivated by the free play of technology
I see, doing the doable is ethically unobjectionable.
He said:

motivated by the free play of markets
That's the gist of Green's ethics! The freedom of trade is (1) an ethic postulate, (2) a model for ethic acting in general.
He said:

This vision of the human future is [...] very likely inevitable.
In bygone days, ethics professors enjoined on us the need for stopping the inevitable. Th...
4-19-2008 6:49 AM
wildcat
Johanna, you need explain to me better, what is your opposition to creating a better human? what is the ethical stance from which you derive your opposition to Green's view?
4-19-2008 9:06 AM
Johanna_G
wildcat, I don't object to the creation of better garage doors and toothpastes. But I do keep on distinguishing human beings, and especially babies, from wares one can cataloguize. Must I really explain that?

What do you think is a "better" human?
What do you think what the genetic engineers as the creators of a "better" human and the orderers of ameliorated babies à la catalogue think is a "better" human?
Will there be a warranty of quality of the catalogue babies? (Of course!) Will there be a right to return unsatisfactory products? (Of course! That's the rule of the marketplace's play.)
Will the fact of being a "better" human (being created eugenically) be certified (answer: of course...
4-19-2008 1:25 PM
wildcat
Johanna, we live in an age when technology (especially genetic tech) advances at an increased pace and daily breakthroughs. To put advances in healing practices that may (and will) eliminate genetic inadequacies such as obesity, Parkinson, cancerous tendencies and so on in the same category as eugenics is a false premise at the onset. Not only is it bad philosophy it does a disservice to all those pioneers that seek to redress unfairness born of genetic deficiencies which puts millions at a disadvantage and allows an immense amount of suffering to be perpetuated on the grounds of historical ethical misappropriation.
That bad things have happened in the past cannot be taken as grounds for sto...
4-19-2008 7:41 PM
Silkweaver
Ethics, a very powerful concept indeed. Lately it becomes more of a political weapon of sorts, instead of serving its original meaning, finding what is good, at least according to the old Greek tradition. So, it seems to me that ethics is not about preventing bad things from happening as it is about making the happening of good things more probable. Perhaps it sounds a bit simplistic, but I think there is a profound difference here. Instead of exploring how really powerful technologies can improve human existence, a lot of intellect and imagination are invested in what can go wrong. Things have gone wrong many times in the past, are going wrong nowadays, and probably will go wrong in the f...
4-20-2008 3:56 AM
abailart
Maybe consider the present too. What does an aversion to the sick and the 'imperfect' reveal of our attitude to our fellows now, today, here?
4-20-2008 1:17 PM
Johanna_G
wildcat, I did not utter anything about "healing practices" and "genetic deficiencies". Bringing that into focus is clearly off-topic. Hayes's critique on Green applies to you, too:
Hayes said:

In his essay, Green doesn't distinguish clearly between different uses of genetic technology -- and the distinctions are critical. It's one thing to enable a couple to avoid passing on a devastating genetic condition [...]. But it's a different thing altogether to create children with a host of "enhanced" athletic, cosmetic and cognitive traits that could be passed to their own children [...]. It's this second use of gene technology [...] that Green most fervently wants us to embrace.[/...
4-20-2008 7:53 PM
Silkweaver
Johanna, thanks for the vote of confidence
I would very much like to have your definition of sapience, and how exactly are you going to measure its change across human history. I do not think we are going anywhere productive with this. Regarding the general condition of humanity today, its much much better than it was 5000 thousand years ago, alas much worse than it should have been by now. See Steven Pinker's lecture in TED here for some further arguments. Consumer driven eugenics sounds really bad, no offence but I smell a witch hunting approach. The issue here is not crossing the line between responsible medical uses of germ l...
4-20-2008 10:35 PM
tanyamm
What's wrong with making babies the old-fashioned way and loving what you get?
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