I don't think the administrations invokes 9/11 nearly enough. "Never Forget" has quickly become "Never Talk About It Or Show Any Footage Of It Or God Forbid Use It To Galvanize The American People To Action".

For what it's worth, the Department of Defense just released unseen footage of the Pentagon terrorist attack and the cable news channels have been running and discussing it almost non-stop throughout the weekend. There was also the film "United 93" that opened to mostly rave reviews and big box office. Oliver Stone has his own likely blockbuster of a film about 9/11 coming out in just a couple months.

It's hard to imagine how much more 9/11 could be pounded into our heads...

I don't think the administrations invokes 9/11 nearly enough. "Never Forget" has quickly become "Never Talk About It Or Show Any Footage Of It Or God Forbid Use It To Galvanize The American People To Action".

For what it's worth, the Department of Defense just released unseen footage of the Pentagon terrorist attack and the cable news channels have been running and discussing it almost non-stop throughout the weekend. There was also the film "United 93" that opened to mostly rave reviews and big box office. Oliver Stone has his own likely blockbuster of a film about 9/11 coming out in just a couple months.

It's hard to imagine how much more 9/11 could be pounded into our heads without resorting to parodies like Trudeau's above. You can only cry wolf so many times before the American public starts to stop believing terrorism is the number one threat we face today...

Hate is probably a little too strong a word... and there are many reasons why I dislike the USSR, mostly due to very few people having unbelievable amount of power and wealth, including their own personal stores etc... and that's the reason. Another reason is due to the fact that it's a shame for a country with such wealth in resources and might to not let their people have a decent life. Here in the US, nobody gave me anything, other than a chance to have such a decent life and that's why I praise it so much. I've worked tirelessly here since a very young age and so my entire family, and things haven't been easy for us at all... yet I managed to have the kind of life here that I would've...

Hate is probably a little too strong a word... and there are many reasons why I dislike the USSR, mostly due to very few people having unbelievable amount of power and wealth, including their own personal stores etc... and that's the reason. Another reason is due to the fact that it's a shame for a country with such wealth in resources and might to not let their people have a decent life. Here in the US, nobody gave me anything, other than a chance to have such a decent life and that's why I praise it so much. I've worked tirelessly here since a very young age and so my entire family, and things haven't been easy for us at all... yet I managed to have the kind of life here that I would've only dreamed off back in the USSR. That's the main reason why I have such great respect for America and Americans. Whatever their faults might be, just as anyone has faults, they managed to build an environment, in a relatively short amount of time (compared to the world in general) that enables people to have a decent life. Obviously not everyone here has such a life and for a number of reasons, but after being here for almost 30 years, I've certainly seen my share of what these people are like, what they've done and what they've allowed others (like myself) to do. And for that basic reason I appreciate it immensely and so does my entire family. I realize that it may sound somewhat naive, but on a very basic level, with all of the faults of administrations and everything else thrown at America, I'm still in awe of how much money gets poured from here into other countries... of things like Indonesian tsunami and how Americans were immediately on the planes and delivering medical supplies to those people and trying to do what they could, collecting immense amounts of money in donations and sending them there... What other country can claim that? or does that? So, that's why I have such a huge admiration for America.

America gets a tremendous amount of flack from other nations and even here at Clipmarks, and considering my experience here, as stated above, I don't think it's right. Nobody's talking against pointing out negatives and even being against some of the policies and trying to improve them... but that's not what's going on here... there's a lot of simple politics, ideologies, envy... and I say what I do because I truly believe that it's painting a false picture. I don't understand why some Americans are against their own country, considering what kind of life they have here.

So, even though you could state that I'm being hipocritical, since I'm bashing my motherland and thus being unpatriotic...

America gets a tremendous amount of flack from other nations and even here at Clipmarks, and considering my experience here, as stated above, I don't think it's right. Nobody's talking against pointing out negatives and even being against some of the policies and trying to improve them... but that's not what's going on here... there's a lot of simple politics, ideologies, envy... and I say what I do because I truly believe that it's painting a false picture. I don't understand why some Americans are against their own country, considering what kind of life they have here.

So, even though you could state that I'm being hipocritical, since I'm bashing my motherland and thus being unpatriotic there, yet I'm arguing with Americans doing the same - I don't that's the case, because of the reasons stated. Of couse stating that everything in USSR was horrible would be an exaggeration, but if you take an overall picture there and overall picture here - it's a day and night comparison.

And patriotism is important, in my opinion, especially at the time of war... because I look at the example of USSR (country I'm most familiar with) - and I can tell you 100% that if the country was not patriotic - it would have never won WW2. People were throwing themselves on machine guns to protect their motherland. Obviously that's an ultimate in patriotism, but that's what wins wars. Hitler was going to march through Moscow by the winter of 1941... instead there was a parade with German prisoners of war and russians did not allow Moscow to be taken, under extreme adversity.

It's very difficult to describe the feeling without living it... I hope I described enough to answer your point. I know you and I disagree on some things, but your civil tone and legitimate debate in this case, which can't be construed as offensive, is certainly appreciated.

Point taken RecordSage, thanks. But anyway, I insist that patriotism should not mean to approve and applaud your administration's each and every decision and action. The problem is universal. Here in Turkey, political groups and parties often accuse each other for not being patriot or even being "traitors"; this has almost become a tradition in Turkish politics. In 1974, the Turkish population in Cyprus was in danger because of a fascist coup and Turkish army landed to the island to protect them. Most Turks approved and supported this action in the beginning. But after the coup was defeated, it eventually began to turn to an obvious "invasion" and it changed the situation on the island. When...

Point taken RecordSage, thanks. But anyway, I insist that patriotism should not mean to approve and applaud your administration's each and every decision and action. The problem is universal. Here in Turkey, political groups and parties often accuse each other for not being patriot or even being "traitors"; this has almost become a tradition in Turkish politics. In 1974, the Turkish population in Cyprus was in danger because of a fascist coup and Turkish army landed to the island to protect them. Most Turks approved and supported this action in the beginning. But after the coup was defeated, it eventually began to turn to an obvious "invasion" and it changed the situation on the island. When the Turkish intellectuals and left-wing groups criticised this in late seventies and demanded a withdrawal, the right-wing "patriots" began accusing them as being "traitors".

I love my country, I find myself very lucky to be born here and I feel, if I'm forced to live far from here (even in very good conditions) and not to see it again, I don't think I live long. But I see many problems with the state, government, administration policies or even with the majority of people sometimes, which I choose to oppose and struggle. Am I not a "patriot" then? Who ever can say I "hate" Turkey?

But I'm already a crabby old man Rich, don't you know it?

I think we discussed it on one of Jason's clips: there are many good and great things about America. But again, there are many things that must be criticised. This is not cricising America but certain political strategies and approaches.

- Poor social security; many people (especially blacks, hispanics and native indians) live in poverty
- An economy and a justice system working in favour of big corporates, not for people
- An oil-dependent industry (which will be a real head-ache for American people soon)
- Enormous military expenditures and budgets while there are obvious needs for health system and infrastructure of the cities...

But I'm already a crabby old man Rich, don't you know it?

I think we discussed it on one of Jason's clips: there are many good and great things about America. But again, there are many things that must be criticised. This is not cricising America but certain political strategies and approaches.

- Poor social security; many people (especially blacks, hispanics and native indians) live in poverty
- An economy and a justice system working in favour of big corporates, not for people
- An oil-dependent industry (which will be a real head-ache for American people soon)
- Enormous military expenditures and budgets while there are obvious needs for health system and infrastructure of the cities and towns (just remember Big Easy after Katrina)
- An aggressive political gang, ruling the country, dragging the American people into dangerous and disturbing adventures under the name of "war on terror"
- And many many more.

Usually, we take "good and great things" as normal and don't mention them but the negative aspects are generally on the front. That's why the criticism of Democrats and other Americans could be seen as "whining". But if you are a great, proud and powerful country, you should work this problems out. And you should tolerate the criticism. You are ALL Americans and you should understand each other instead of fussing.

And, accusing the criticism as treason is a practice of totalitarian regimes. RecordSage probably knows it best from the Soviet Union.

BBW said it exactly. And invictus, please don't misunderstand me, I'm for patriotism, but against nationalism. This is what's happening in Russia right now, people of non-white skin are being beaten big time on the streets and told to get the he** out. I'm definitely opposed to anything like that.

Thank BBW for your kind words and rephrasing my sentiments precisely.

As for your comment regarding Turkey, invictus - I completely understand... I don't think there's a single country in the world which has no problems and the way I look at the situation in the States - at least the system allows to vote people in and out and even if someone gets voted in and doesn't do a job as expected, the...

BBW said it exactly. And invictus, please don't misunderstand me, I'm for patriotism, but against nationalism. This is what's happening in Russia right now, people of non-white skin are being beaten big time on the streets and told to get the he** out. I'm definitely opposed to anything like that.

Thank BBW for your kind words and rephrasing my sentiments precisely.

As for your comment regarding Turkey, invictus - I completely understand... I don't think there's a single country in the world which has no problems and the way I look at the situation in the States - at least the system allows to vote people in and out and even if someone gets voted in and doesn't do a job as expected, they won't last for more than 4 years at most. So, that's another reason for my disagreement with doomsdayers - the current administration will be out the door in no time and to me the concentration should be on who to pick to run the country next and what they should be doing different domestically, externally etc... not keep beating on the existing administration, because it accomplishes nothing.. in my opinion of course

For the record, I've never posted a single thing on digg... so you're off on that one.

back to invictus... I don't applaud the administration on every turn... if you've read some of my posts, you'd see that I'm not in agreement with many things that are going on, but that's internal stuff. There is a war going on and the country needs to be united if it hopes to win it, that's all. I understand that politically there are all kinds of people, you have liberals, conservatives, Republicans, Democrats, communists, socialists - all kinds... but on 9/11 the enemies didn't care which groups they wanted to kill - they killed people from all kinds of groups and want to do more of the same. So, I...

For the record, I've never posted a single thing on digg... so you're off on that one.

back to invictus... I don't applaud the administration on every turn... if you've read some of my posts, you'd see that I'm not in agreement with many things that are going on, but that's internal stuff. There is a war going on and the country needs to be united if it hopes to win it, that's all. I understand that politically there are all kinds of people, you have liberals, conservatives, Republicans, Democrats, communists, socialists - all kinds... but on 9/11 the enemies didn't care which groups they wanted to kill - they killed people from all kinds of groups and want to do more of the same. So, I simply think that since Americans are being targeted as a single group - Americans should stand against it as a single group. Giving the enemy any enouragement will simply cost lives of our soldiers and I don't want to see that happen... we've already lost too many, as far as I'm concerned.

LOL, I laughed way hard at the cartoon itself. Always a fan of Doonesbury.

Amaruca, you gotta tude problem. You haven't made a valid point or even contributed to the topic AT LEAST in the last half of this thread, and yet you're still talking.

I think there's a balance. We need to remember, but we don't need to shove it down throats constantly. No, it did not change the world, because that would mean that the US is the center of everything, and that's just not true. We're a big player, but not the only one. I do think that anyone not raised in this country can't fully sympathize with our particular brand of patriotism (which is NOT stalinism...that's like saying that having a cocktai...

LOL, I laughed way hard at the cartoon itself. Always a fan of Doonesbury.

Amaruca, you gotta tude problem. You haven't made a valid point or even contributed to the topic AT LEAST in the last half of this thread, and yet you're still talking.

I think there's a balance. We need to remember, but we don't need to shove it down throats constantly. No, it did not change the world, because that would mean that the US is the center of everything, and that's just not true. We're a big player, but not the only one. I do think that anyone not raised in this country can't fully sympathize with our particular brand of patriotism (which is NOT stalinism...that's like saying that having a cocktail is alcoholism), but an international point of view may well provide useful insight.

Nice video, Athyrius.

Amaruca...Honey, calm down. I've never been ATTACKED by anyone on this site (RS and I have had it out, but hell, we're mature enough to agree to disagree at the end of the day). It seems to me like you have my personality trait of counter-attack style defense, which does not make you any more dedicated to your views than any of us. You don't respect most of the people on this site, and therefore they will not respect you. That's how argument (and philosophy in general) works. If you didn't want to be on here in the first place, you should've looked more closely at your clipping options and made PRIVATE your default. It's not too late, ya know.

RS, you make a good point. I've done not...

Amaruca...Honey, calm down. I've never been ATTACKED by anyone on this site (RS and I have had it out, but hell, we're mature enough to agree to disagree at the end of the day). It seems to me like you have my personality trait of counter-attack style defense, which does not make you any more dedicated to your views than any of us. You don't respect most of the people on this site, and therefore they will not respect you. That's how argument (and philosophy in general) works. If you didn't want to be on here in the first place, you should've looked more closely at your clipping options and made PRIVATE your default. It's not too late, ya know.

RS, you make a good point. I've done nothing but argue with her and still she has only a problem with you guys (according to her). I'm a conservative and I have no problem saying it, but I don't see any point to using those labels over and over and over. It accomplishes nothing. Conservative is not a bad word and neither is liberal. It's just an overeducated means of name-calling in my book.

Thank you, Wolf.

Ah, the truce sentiment. Ok, we can play that. Simply make your comments like everyone else. You have an opinion and you expect others to view and respect it, although not necessarily agree with it. You do the same in return and nobody's going to mock you, it's that simple. You have a point to make, from your perspective - do it... but don't expect anyone to be nice when you preface their comments with the word 'dejected'. You're no more right or wrong than I am... anything you or I say is completely debatable and can be viewed differently by different people and interpreted differently by different people. Nobody's trying to change your opinion anymore than expect you to change anyon...

Ah, the truce sentiment. Ok, we can play that. Simply make your comments like everyone else. You have an opinion and you expect others to view and respect it, although not necessarily agree with it. You do the same in return and nobody's going to mock you, it's that simple. You have a point to make, from your perspective - do it... but don't expect anyone to be nice when you preface their comments with the word 'dejected'. You're no more right or wrong than I am... anything you or I say is completely debatable and can be viewed differently by different people and interpreted differently by different people. Nobody's trying to change your opinion anymore than expect you to change anyone else's. If you make a point and it makes sense, I for one would listen and consider it and if it makes more sense than my view - I'd gladly agree. But if someone disagrees with you - you start throwing certain words around - expect a) not to be taken seriously at all and b) retaliated against. Don't think you're the only one who's capable of 'defending' yourself. I don't know how anyone else feels on this, but if this works for you - it works for me.