I appreciate the understanding of my fellow clippers, but It was not my intent to win anyones sympathy. Some have suggested that I took it out of context. If that is the case than I recant my asshole remark. In my eyes it was a callous offhanded remark made by someone who has no sympathy for his brother. I'm obviously not alone. Ive considered what arifsali said but feel that while the content was over the top the clip will remain to address the opinions of those that agree with it. The freedom to express oneself is essential. While I quite obviously disagree with the way the comment came across It is GD's right and privilege to do so. I DO NOT wish to be a hate monger. Again if I misunder...

I appreciate the understanding of my fellow clippers, but It was not my intent to win anyones sympathy. Some have suggested that I took it out of context. If that is the case than I recant my asshole remark. In my eyes it was a callous offhanded remark made by someone who has no sympathy for his brother. I'm obviously not alone. Ive considered what arifsali said but feel that while the content was over the top the clip will remain to address the opinions of those that agree with it. The freedom to express oneself is essential. While I quite obviously disagree with the way the comment came across It is GD's right and privilege to do so. I DO NOT wish to be a hate monger. Again if I misunderstood than I am sorry. The following comments made by GD however only strengthen my original feelings about his lack of sympathy and understanding. I am humbled by my own indignation and will from now on refrain from taking cheap shots at those that anger me. Everyone we meet in life has something to teach us,whether its how to act or how not to act .So with that i am grateful to GD for the lesson learned and hope that he also can find something in this that will make him a better person........................cheers

"Decent guys" are never heartless and cruel, so you are at odds with yourself about me. It's either one or the other, isn't it. Decisions, decisions.

Indignation is a very attractive, seductive, and powerful emotion for some and very hard to let go even when subsequent examination of the original source reveals it as an inappropriate overreaction based on misinterpretation.

That this is the case is made clear in your ignoring of this simple statement alone:

My comments were addressing two simple things, knee jerk condemnation of the police, and concern for the safety of persons with conditions such as epilepsy which display sets of symptoms unfamiliar to most people.

...

"Decent guys" are never heartless and cruel, so you are at odds with yourself about me. It's either one or the other, isn't it. Decisions, decisions.

Indignation is a very attractive, seductive, and powerful emotion for some and very hard to let go even when subsequent examination of the original source reveals it as an inappropriate overreaction based on misinterpretation.

That this is the case is made clear in your ignoring of this simple statement alone:

My comments were addressing two simple things, knee jerk condemnation of the police, and concern for the safety of persons with conditions such as epilepsy which display sets of symptoms unfamiliar to most people.

And I have made several other clarifying comments.

What is puzzling to me is the need to attribute some negative intent to my suggestion, rather than simply disagreeing with what you see, for whatever reason, as a bad idea.

Godfrey Daniel said:

Are you actually saying that it is possible to be unintentionally cruel, heartless, and insulting?

It seems to me that those are all motive dependent.

Are you joking? You never heard of someone unintentionally hurting someone else's feelings out of general unwitting callousness? Sorry if it surprises you, but this is a fact: you can be an jerk, or cruel, or insulting without necessarily meaning to. And it doesn't get you off the hook. Saying that epileptics ought to walk around advertising their conditions on their T-shirts or face the consequences definitely qualifies, no matter what kind of explanation you come up with for what you were thinking at the time....

Godfrey Daniel said:

Are you actually saying that it is possible to be unintentionally cruel, heartless, and insulting?

It seems to me that those are all motive dependent.

Are you joking? You never heard of someone unintentionally hurting someone else's feelings out of general unwitting callousness? Sorry if it surprises you, but this is a fact: you can be an jerk, or cruel, or insulting without necessarily meaning to. And it doesn't get you off the hook. Saying that epileptics ought to walk around advertising their conditions on their T-shirts or face the consequences definitely qualifies, no matter what kind of explanation you come up with for what you were thinking at the time.

You keep referring to the way I think as "PC." I've always wondered what you mean by that. I'm starting to get it, now, though: you mean "decent and civil."

You're cracking me up. Obviously you can unintentiionally hurt feelings, it just doesn't qualify as cruelness which requires intent.

And even still you are misrepresenting and purporting to be able to read my thought and thinking. In other words your imagination has more validity for you than my actual words and explanations in determining my "secret thinking". Wow, that's delusional.

You see me as "on a hook" from which I can't wiggle.
I see you as at the a bottom of the hole you've been furiously digging.

It's interesting that the only response to the only clearly cruel, ignorant, and unfair comment in the original thread was mine. No one else has addressed the clear and obvious expres...

You're cracking me up. Obviously you can unintentiionally hurt feelings, it just doesn't qualify as cruelness which requires intent.

And even still you are misrepresenting and purporting to be able to read my thought and thinking. In other words your imagination has more validity for you than my actual words and explanations in determining my "secret thinking". Wow, that's delusional.

You see me as "on a hook" from which I can't wiggle.
I see you as at the a bottom of the hole you've been furiously digging.

It's interesting that the only response to the only clearly cruel, ignorant, and unfair comment in the original thread was mine. No one else has addressed the clear and obvious expression of the type transgression for which I'm being accused (based on my imagined thinking,and despite clarification) evident in the condemnation of the police as "sadistic knuckle draggers".

Even with all this said we seem to be loosing ground with this topic. GD obviously does not wish to see another persons point of view as valid if it means he made a mistake. What I would like to know is how you can expect anyone to listen to what you say and take anything constructive away from it when you close your mind to the opinions that they have(kinda like a tele-evangelist who has a penchant for whores-do as i say not as i do) In order for any of this to be constructive we need to take EVERYONES opinion into account without dismissing it as" bleating in unthinking unison" or "all emotion and no thought." Doesn't it feel like your beating a dead horse Enbar? GD clearly does not feel...

Even with all this said we seem to be loosing ground with this topic. GD obviously does not wish to see another persons point of view as valid if it means he made a mistake. What I would like to know is how you can expect anyone to listen to what you say and take anything constructive away from it when you close your mind to the opinions that they have(kinda like a tele-evangelist who has a penchant for whores-do as i say not as i do) In order for any of this to be constructive we need to take EVERYONES opinion into account without dismissing it as" bleating in unthinking unison" or "all emotion and no thought." Doesn't it feel like your beating a dead horse Enbar? GD clearly does not feel the need for a personal examination but would rather split hairs over the words you use to express your opinion when the intent is (to me ) quite clear. My thanks to the sympathetic, and my sympathies to GD. People who are always right are very lonely indeed. There is no more anger here for me, just sadness in the fact that this is all at the core of the human condition. Until we can sympathize with each other we will not be able to rise above the hell on earth that we have created for ourselves.

Someone in this thread has obviously lost the grace of God. I thought a universal rule in all religions was to be civil and modest when sharing your opinion, and not rude, immature, callus, and selfish. When GD is attacked, he attacks back with such ferocity, immaturity, and insensitivity, that his points are lost in the shuffle to nearly everyone except for only a handful. I am getting your opinions, GD, and I in a way agree with some of them, but could you maybe stop cackling when you write them? And this isn’t PC. PC would be me asking you to use euphemisms and be vague about your opinion to the point that nobody could be possibly be offended by the ‘oh my, someone with an opinion other ...

Someone in this thread has obviously lost the grace of God. I thought a universal rule in all religions was to be civil and modest when sharing your opinion, and not rude, immature, callus, and selfish. When GD is attacked, he attacks back with such ferocity, immaturity, and insensitivity, that his points are lost in the shuffle to nearly everyone except for only a handful. I am getting your opinions, GD, and I in a way agree with some of them, but could you maybe stop cackling when you write them? And this isn’t PC. PC would be me asking you to use euphemisms and be vague about your opinion to the point that nobody could be possibly be offended by the ‘oh my, someone with an opinion other than mine’ complex. What I am asking for is just be nice, even if people aren’t nice to you. People will still be offended even when you’re civil and kind when sharing your points, but more will get your points after this is done.

continued...

I know you'll either reply to this by pointing out some contradictory view, or some contradictory action I have done before in an attempt to make everything I say magically invalid, so I will make it easier for you by listing any contradiction I can see so you don't have to waste your breath. I have not lived by my own advice on here before. I have insulted you before, made little side comments about you, or was rude in a reply to you, or outright ignored you because you were so rude in your reply to me that I saw no need to waste a response on you. And then you may ask why am I wasting so much of a response on you right now? Honestly I don’t know. And then you may ask how pointing out cont...

I know you'll either reply to this by pointing out some contradictory view, or some contradictory action I have done before in an attempt to make everything I say magically invalid, so I will make it easier for you by listing any contradiction I can see so you don't have to waste your breath. I have not lived by my own advice on here before. I have insulted you before, made little side comments about you, or was rude in a reply to you, or outright ignored you because you were so rude in your reply to me that I saw no need to waste a response on you. And then you may ask why am I wasting so much of a response on you right now? Honestly I don’t know. And then you may ask how pointing out contradictions and people living in a life of contradictions doesn’t make their opinions invalid? Well to answer this I’ll ask ‘your opinions are still valid, aren’t they?’ And finally, you might say that in my argument in saying you should try not to offend someone, that I am offending you, so I am cancelling myself out. The only difference here is that I am not trying to intentionally offend you, but I am trying to show you what many people see of you. And finally, you might say that this entire thing is just a game, a manipulation, and you shouldn’t care for it. If you think that, then there’s nothing I can say.

Or course maybe I should just shut up.

Oh, my people! Allow me to diverge for a moment to extol the benefit and virtue of very nearly, almost possibly reckless abandon and calculated short term irresponsibility, of a kind....

A few nights ago I went out to some friends' gig, after which I heard the typical, "Come on G, the party's just startin", at which point I been sayin', "Nah, man, I got bidness en la man~ana", but which, for some reason, this time I didn't.

Went home, got my drums and some equipment, played and partied for two days straight. Man, I am simultaneously refreshed and fried. Slept all day. Got some serious catch-up to deal with this weekend.

Anyway, came to The Clip and here all this is, and I said, Man, do I ...

Oh, my people! Allow me to diverge for a moment to extol the benefit and virtue of very nearly, almost possibly reckless abandon and calculated short term irresponsibility, of a kind....

A few nights ago I went out to some friends' gig, after which I heard the typical, "Come on G, the party's just startin", at which point I been sayin', "Nah, man, I got bidness en la man~ana", but which, for some reason, this time I didn't.

Went home, got my drums and some equipment, played and partied for two days straight. Man, I am simultaneously refreshed and fried. Slept all day. Got some serious catch-up to deal with this weekend.

Anyway, came to The Clip and here all this is, and I said, Man, do I even want to mess with this? Nah, no way, says party boy G, by Mr Godfrey Daniel says, Oh, absolutely! Are you kidding? This stuff is fascinating...

This comment was actually composed after the following...

This has all been fascinating and instructive. On the one hand I'm glad for the week long honor for the opportunity it has provided, but on the other it would have been better had my original comment been made by someone else so that my participation wouldn't be misperceived, as it has been, as defensive. Well, you can't have everything, and I'm thankful nonetheless.

I really feel like I've been dealing with a bunch of children in all this, or more accurately, adults suffering arrested emotional development. You're not unintelligent, you just illustrate how emotion can disrupt and cripple the thought processes. Let me try to help you out with this.

When I enter the process of examining the...

This has all been fascinating and instructive. On the one hand I'm glad for the week long honor for the opportunity it has provided, but on the other it would have been better had my original comment been made by someone else so that my participation wouldn't be misperceived, as it has been, as defensive. Well, you can't have everything, and I'm thankful nonetheless.

I really feel like I've been dealing with a bunch of children in all this, or more accurately, adults suffering arrested emotional development. You're not unintelligent, you just illustrate how emotion can disrupt and cripple the thought processes. Let me try to help you out with this.

When I enter the process of examining the nature and issues involved in ever-problematic human relations, I first ID the key players; in this case, the Woman in the Window, The Epileptic, and The Police.

Next step--as much as possible, I then view the event with and from the perspective of each in an objective and unemotional manner.

What has happened with you all that is quite different, thus making my observations incomprehensible to you, is that your initial emotional reaction, brought about by your viewing the event from a single perspective, that of the epileptic, locked down your thought processes. Your emotions of sympathy, outrage, sadness, and etc for The Epileptic--all quite natural, but quite negative when allowed to rule and thereby close objective thought out of the process, precluding you from considering the perspective of the others involved.

This was most clearly evidenced in the first few comments which convicted The Police of sadism, and The Woman in the Window as a nosy, stupid, and heartless bitch who should be sued; these are what drew my response. The horribleness of being tased as result of misread symptoms of a disease seemed a given and obvious to me. The other human facets in this seem not only not obvious to many of you, but entirely unnoticed.

In thinking it through and viewing it from The Epileptic's perspective--in other words as though I were he--one of my thoughts was, "This is not good. I don't ever want to go through this again. What can I do to, as much as possible, prevent recurrence?"

Ok,so I'm thinking I can't speak, I have a bracelet on my wildly flailing wrist which can't be read, my particular seizure symptoms make me appear violent and deranged, so how can I best communicate the reality to others when in the throws of this condition?

The T-Shirt came to mind. Something I could wear when out jogging or walking or anywhere when not accompanied by someone who could communicate these things when I'm unable. (Of course ...

In thinking it through and viewing it from The Epileptic's perspective--in other words as though I were he--one of my thoughts was, "This is not good. I don't ever want to go through this again. What can I do to, as much as possible, prevent recurrence?"

Ok,so I'm thinking I can't speak, I have a bracelet on my wildly flailing wrist which can't be read, my particular seizure symptoms make me appear violent and deranged, so how can I best communicate the reality to others when in the throws of this condition?

The T-Shirt came to mind. Something I could wear when out jogging or walking or anywhere when not accompanied by someone who could communicate these things when I'm unable. (Of course I recognized when making this suggestion that it was far from perfect. Who wants to wear a t-shirt all the time? What do you do in winter, or when you need to wear a suit or dress? and etc) This is the personal responsibility angle that I was getting at, and not that I, as The Epileptic, was responsible for the reactions of The Woman in the Window, or The Police, but rather to myself, for my own safety, and to others in concern for their making an error for which they would surely feel terrible.

These are things that none of you seemed to consider. How do you suppose The Woman in the Window and The Police felt after discovering the true nature of the situation? What about their humanity? You were rendered incapable of these considerations because your initial emotional reaction took control causing a fixed identification with The Epileptic as victim.

That sums up the emotionalism aspect of this. The other aspect is tribalism.

Virtually everyone that I'm familiar with here at The Clip who took the most negative possible reading of my comments, and who entirely dismissed my clarifications, was of the "Tribal Left". Accumulated baggage entirely unrelated to anything at issue in this discussion, having to do with previous disagreements political and other, further disabled your objective consideration of my comments in this.

I am "other". Not of The Tribe. Suspect. Distrusted. I am an imagined composite set of negative emotions, motivations, and bad intent. A caricature. A persona. A construct existing entirely and solely in your imagination.

This seems to be a consistent need of very many who are politically lef...

Virtually everyone that I'm familiar with here at The Clip who took the most negative possible reading of my comments, and who entirely dismissed my clarifications, was of the "Tribal Left". Accumulated baggage entirely unrelated to anything at issue in this discussion, having to do with previous disagreements political and other, further disabled your objective consideration of my comments in this.

I am "other". Not of The Tribe. Suspect. Distrusted. I am an imagined composite set of negative emotions, motivations, and bad intent. A caricature. A persona. A construct existing entirely and solely in your imagination.

This seems to be a consistent need of very many who are politically left. You can't seem to simply engage in an exchange and battle of ideas and philosophical views, you need these malevolent caricatures with which to do battle because your emotionalism needs an emotional enemy.

It is, in fact, my thoughts that haven't been considered openly. Instead they've been transformed through negative supposition of my intent--everything interpreted in the most negative possible manner and to amusing extreme. Then, this repackaging and misrepresentation is condemned as if actually my statements and positions, disregarding my own numerous subsequent comments and clarifications to the contrary.

I restate-- none of this is a personal defense. I feel nothing in all this. All the nonsense about attacks and attacks in response and any and all of the other emotional nonsense is happening in the isolation of your emotional thinking, and not in me in the slightest.

This bringing of the personal nature of real life interaction, in evident lack of notice of the enormous and unique opportunity that the Internet affords for the exchange of ideas and exploration of thought absent all that otherwise unavoidable mess, is a phenomenon of great interest to me. That is the reason for my thankfulness for the opportunity to look at this that this otherwise unfortunate mess affords. I would h...

I restate-- none of this is a personal defense. I feel nothing in all this. All the nonsense about attacks and attacks in response and any and all of the other emotional nonsense is happening in the isolation of your emotional thinking, and not in me in the slightest.

This bringing of the personal nature of real life interaction, in evident lack of notice of the enormous and unique opportunity that the Internet affords for the exchange of ideas and exploration of thought absent all that otherwise unavoidable mess, is a phenomenon of great interest to me. That is the reason for my thankfulness for the opportunity to look at this that this otherwise unfortunate mess affords. I would have much preferred being told simply that my idea was stupid and/or that my thinking was wack, and what the heck do you mean by that, Godfrey? But that didn't happen. But in every negative there is opportunity, and so it is here.

I expect that for some, if not all of you, this response will serve only to solidify and extend your initial outrage, but if I can get even one person to think this through, separate from The Epileptic, The Police, The Woman in the Window, and Mean Mr Godfrey D of the Tribe of the Heartless, then it will be a good thing.

GD, ever consider that your constant insistence on "feeling nothing" might be part of the problem?

Look, I have a lot of respect for you. You're obviously an intelligent and thoughtful guy, and despite the fact that I probably give the contrary impression at times, I tend to take your comments quite seriously, and they have made me rethink some of my own positions. And I think you're probably a fundamentally decent person, not that it's my prerogative to judge who's "decent" and who's not. What comes across in this thread, though, is the fact that you don't seem capable of recognizing that people might have a legitimate reason to be upset at something you said, [i]even if[/...

GD, ever consider that your constant insistence on "feeling nothing" might be part of the problem?

Look, I have a lot of respect for you. You're obviously an intelligent and thoughtful guy, and despite the fact that I probably give the contrary impression at times, I tend to take your comments quite seriously, and they have made me rethink some of my own positions. And I think you're probably a fundamentally decent person, not that it's my prerogative to judge who's "decent" and who's not. What comes across in this thread, though, is the fact that you don't seem capable of recognizing that people might have a legitimate reason to be upset at something you said, even if your intentions were perfectly nice. I'm quite willing to accept your explanation of your thought process, and to believe that your intentions are good. But objectively, I find the suggestion repugnant that a member of a stigmatized and vulnerable minority permanently brand himself in public in order to avoid official violence. Your comments suggest that you don't understand how both these things can be true at once. But they can. I can believe that your intentions are good (or, more to the point, that your intentions are unknowable), and simultaneously believe that your statements are objectionable. What you don't seem to be able to do is accord people who react that way any legitimacy whatsoever. In your view, anyone who takes any offence whatever at your words must be a victim of childish or disturbed or overly ideological thinking. That's simply not true. People can have different reactions to things without there being anything wrong with their thinking. I wish you could acknowledge that people might object strenuously to things you say without also having to publicly class them as fools.

GD, ever consider that your constant insistence on "feeling nothing" might be part of the problem?

This response is not in context. Your intimation here is that I have no empathy, sympathy, concern or caring for others. My "feel nothing" comment seems clear enough to me to be a statement regarding my unemotional unaffected state of mind when reading anger and resentment--as reflected in this clip title, as example--directed at me, and nothing to do with my regarding The Epileptic.

...you don't seem capable of recognizing that people might have a legitimate reason to be upset at something you said...

Being upset is an emotional condition. Initial emotions are h...

GD, ever consider that your constant insistence on "feeling nothing" might be part of the problem?

This response is not in context. Your intimation here is that I have no empathy, sympathy, concern or caring for others. My "feel nothing" comment seems clear enough to me to be a statement regarding my unemotional unaffected state of mind when reading anger and resentment--as reflected in this clip title, as example--directed at me, and nothing to do with my regarding The Epileptic.

...you don't seem capable of recognizing that people might have a legitimate reason to be upset at something you said...

Being upset is an emotional condition. Initial emotions are healthy and natural, but should be flashes lasting moments, not states of being at which point they become negative and lose legitimacy. They then cause what we've seen here; the clinging to the initial feeling despite all that follows that would serve to mollify, absent that clinging, and if allowed.


I find the suggestion repugnant that a member of a stigmatized and vulnerable minority permanently brand himself in public in order to avoid official violence.

This is an example of something you do fairly often--applcation of circumstances and realities from centuries past as though currently relevant. "Stigmatized and vulnerable minority"? Where exactly? Surely not in the civilized world.

Next another fav of yours; negative reframing. "permanently brand himself in public in order to avoid official violence" . Voluntarily choosing to wear a TShirt, or some other condition announcing item, such as the bracelet that he was wearing hardly qualifies as "branding".

My suggestion was not intended as a preventative of "official violence" (wow, what a loaded term that is) but as a useful means of communication in self interest.

I wish you could acknowledge that people might object strenuously to things you say without also having to publicly class them as fools

Enbar, please, how many times have I said that taking things here personally is illusory? Having stated this view repeatedly, why then would I then act otherwise? Thus, whatever I'm declaring as foolish is related entirely to the actual words written and read--to the opinion expressed. As none of us know each other in any real life sense, how can one know if another is an actual fool, or just acting one?

A major factor in all this is a very simple and basic one, language. It wasn't designed for this medium of communication. Take "personal" p...

I wish you could acknowledge that people might object strenuously to things you say without also having to publicly class them as fools

Enbar, please, how many times have I said that taking things here personally is illusory? Having stated this view repeatedly, why then would I then act otherwise? Thus, whatever I'm declaring as foolish is related entirely to the actual words written and read--to the opinion expressed. As none of us know each other in any real life sense, how can one know if another is an actual fool, or just acting one?

A major factor in all this is a very simple and basic one, language. It wasn't designed for this medium of communication. Take "personal" pronouns. We have to use them. No way around it. It is just very helpful to keep in mind that I,me, you, your, are, in this context, nothing more than elements of unavoidable English sentence structure, and not at all having the full significance they have in the real world.

I'm popping this for the sheer reason, that I think others should read this clip and Godfreys comments too. I think, that this is actually the first time Godfrey has come across with something I can use, something that wasn't just perceived by me as just being plain mean, cruel or evil, so that others perhaps may be able to too.

I can see your points Godfrey and some of them are really good ones. But would it be too much to ask, that since you CAN see how others might perceive things (the police, the lady in the window and so on) and you DO understand that others can react emotionally, that you choose your words with greater care when commenting on clips? That you could try to put yoursel...

I'm popping this for the sheer reason, that I think others should read this clip and Godfreys comments too. I think, that this is actually the first time Godfrey has come across with something I can use, something that wasn't just perceived by me as just being plain mean, cruel or evil, so that others perhaps may be able to too.

I can see your points Godfrey and some of them are really good ones. But would it be too much to ask, that since you CAN see how others might perceive things (the police, the lady in the window and so on) and you DO understand that others can react emotionally, that you choose your words with greater care when commenting on clips? That you could try to put yourself in others' clippers positions too and think first about how your comments can be seen as just plain hurtful and nasty.

Instead of just seeing this site as your own personal experiment in support of your own theories and perceptions and agenda, (by that I mean you the things you have expressed about these virtual interactions as all just a big philosophical game and very amusing to you) that you perhaps could just offer a little bit of grace and politeness to others? Kindness doesn't hurt. Politeness doesn't hurt. I'm really trying hard to understand what you're trying to say on this clip, but I still think, that with just a little more effort on your side not to be so harsh all the time, we would all benefit greatly from this. Especially the emotional ones...like me.

I'm not expecting you to reply to my comments in any other way than I've been accustomed to from you, (once burnt, twice shy) but surprise me for once by showing that you CAN rise above the title of this clip.

since you CAN see how others might perceive things (the police, the lady in the window and so on) and you DO understand that others can react emotionally, that you choose your words with greater care when commenting on clips?

My words are chosen with care. It's interesting that I am the one you are asking to use care as result of your read of these comments, and of the clip title itself; which is, in my view, something its author has yet to rise above.

My very first comment, on the original clip, was a response to words chosen without care.

One of the greatest lessons in life that I learned from my Uncle and through meditation, is that we are responsible for our heart and in...

since you CAN see how others might perceive things (the police, the lady in the window and so on) and you DO understand that others can react emotionally, that you choose your words with greater care when commenting on clips?

My words are chosen with care. It's interesting that I am the one you are asking to use care as result of your read of these comments, and of the clip title itself; which is, in my view, something its author has yet to rise above.

My very first comment, on the original clip, was a response to words chosen without care.

One of the greatest lessons in life that I learned from my Uncle and through meditation, is that we are responsible for our heart and intentions, but not other's perceptions of them. If you, after sincere examination of your own heart, said my Uncle, concern yourself that all perceive you as you know yourself, and respond to challenges to prove yourself, you will be manipulated like a sock puppet.

Instead of just seeing this site as your own personal experiment in support of your own theories and perceptions and agenda, (by that I mean you the things you have expressed about these virtual interactions as all just a big philosophical game and very amusing to you) that you perhaps could just offer a little bit of grace and politeness to others?

I do not view this site in a manner anything like this. And again, if you offer a view here that is so absurd to me that it deserves ridicule, please understand that, in reality, this cannot be, and is not, personal.

What sort of lives must some of you live if you don't encounter this sort of rejection of something you've said. There are people in my life that I love dearly whom I nonetheless think hold absurd political, and other views and positions, and I tell them so. They do likewise. We don't suffer emotional breakdowns, accusing each other of meanness and cruelty as result. And that's in the real world! How much more silly is it here in the "safety" of virtual reality?

...try to put yourself in others' clippers positions too and think first about how your comments can be seen as just plain hurtful and nasty.

Again, it is interesting that the comments which were truly thoughtless and...

What sort of lives must some of you live if you don't encounter this sort of rejection of something you've said. There are people in my life that I love dearly whom I nonetheless think hold absurd political, and other views and positions, and I tell them so. They do likewise. We don't suffer emotional breakdowns, accusing each other of meanness and cruelty as result. And that's in the real world! How much more silly is it here in the "safety" of virtual reality?

...try to put yourself in others' clippers positions too and think first about how your comments can be seen as just plain hurtful and nasty.

Again, it is interesting that the comments which were truly thoughtless and "nasty", which drew my initial response, were ignored by all but me, which is illustrative of how emotions cloud and alter perceptions. There is nothing here in my comments that was "mean and nasty", and even allowing for misunderstanding of my initial comments, the quickly subsequent clarifications should have made it clear. But as I've said, emotion is a comforting and addictive thing for some and clinging to the initial emotion was the chosen option for many.

I do appreciate your thoughtful response, and your acknowledgment of my making at least some good points. Your objections, and those similar made by others, would appear more sincere, however, if they were more equal in distribution, and not merely applied to those with whom you disagree on matters political and social.

Arif,
What do you think about this comment?

Ive been there a while usmc. I've tried to understand the other point of view. You can only throw so many facts and reason at the beast until you realize what it is. A beast! Facts and reason do not matter. They are driven by hate for the jewish state, hate for our country, hate for GW Bush, hate for the military (proven by the knee-jerk outrage at our soldiers any time a charge is made), hate for family and traditional values, and hate directed at the faithful. Yet, they love all trivials, propaganda, anti-americanism, conspiracy and disgusting behavior. They love fake media if it says what they want to hear. They love to turn clipmarks into a fo...

Arif,
What do you think about this comment?

Ive been there a while usmc. I've tried to understand the other point of view. You can only throw so many facts and reason at the beast until you realize what it is. A beast! Facts and reason do not matter. They are driven by hate for the jewish state, hate for our country, hate for GW Bush, hate for the military (proven by the knee-jerk outrage at our soldiers any time a charge is made), hate for family and traditional values, and hate directed at the faithful. Yet, they love all trivials, propaganda, anti-americanism, conspiracy and disgusting behavior. They love fake media if it says what they want to hear. They love to turn clipmarks into a forum for their hate and discourage free ideas. The home-bred American haters finally have a trustworthy ally abroad and it is militant islam. It is quite a funny thing that the police -state they hate so much will be required by the uncivil nature of their tone and the outright contempt for thier home. I think people are not quite open yet to the future of what we are facing here.

Noteworthy to comment that this is not G.D.s, comment.

Those of us who take offense and distaste in our minds reading other's opposing views and comments, are only taking offense to due to ourselves and ourselves alone

You may have a point, arif.

I know this is an old thread, and it was obviously a sore subject, but I can't help but wonder who got second place?? Perhaps that place is reserved for whoever gives GD the most cannon fodder?? I think GD should be nominated for an honorary title here at Clipmarks. Even having been here such a short time it is obvious that he has won many hearts as "the Man everyone loves to hate" He would probably win contests for who get's the most responses, who uses the terms "right and conservative" most often, who most often challenges us to think about our convictions, the most literate conservative and maybe even who has the most fun! ( It's just a shame that his opponents here at clipmarks are...

I know this is an old thread, and it was obviously a sore subject, but I can't help but wonder who got second place?? Perhaps that place is reserved for whoever gives GD the most cannon fodder?? I think GD should be nominated for an honorary title here at Clipmarks. Even having been here such a short time it is obvious that he has won many hearts as "the Man everyone loves to hate" He would probably win contests for who get's the most responses, who uses the terms "right and conservative" most often, who most often challenges us to think about our convictions, the most literate conservative and maybe even who has the most fun! ( It's just a shame that his opponents here at clipmarks are so much more literate than his supporters. Maybe he shoud get the most inarticulate clippers award, too!)

Months have passed and I would like to propose a new candidate for this most lowly of titles. After having read this entire comment thread:
Is America A 'Christian Nation'? :
http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/00680395-CA97-4C43-ABF5-2031B8818D01/

(as if THAT wasn't enough) ....and then checking out the clipper EvilPoets profile afterwards:
http://clipmarks.com/clipper/EvilPoet/

I would most humbly like to nominate willhelm as Asshole of the Week ...or month even!

His arrogance, ego and self-righteous rottenness throughout the whole clip towards EVERYONE, should surely prove him most deserving of this award.

Congrats willhelm and shame on you.

@EvilPoet
May I apologize on his...

Months have passed and I would like to propose a new candidate for this most lowly of titles. After having read this entire comment thread:
Is America A 'Christian Nation'? :
http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/00680395-CA97-4C43-ABF5-2031B8818D01/

(as if THAT wasn't enough) ....and then checking out the clipper EvilPoets profile afterwards:
http://clipmarks.com/clipper/EvilPoet/

I would most humbly like to nominate willhelm as Asshole of the Week ...or month even!

His arrogance, ego and self-righteous rottenness throughout the whole clip towards EVERYONE, should surely prove him most deserving of this award.

Congrats willhelm and shame on you.

@EvilPoet
May I apologize on his behalf, because willhelm is always so 'right' that he probably never will 'demeen' himself, to do it himself...

Hrm.. maybe i missed it, but where did he say you called anyone an asshole?

And I will call you "ignorant, hateful, asshole, troll, intolerant" - and i know exactly whet the words mean

And i don't think you ever respond in kind.. you often throw the first "punch" however by calling someone ignorant, or stupid, or otherwise.

eg: you are often insulting, insinuating that someone is stupid:
- "It appears you do not understand the argument. Nor can you comprehend the definition you pasted. Is english your primary language?' (ref)
- "The record of our comments is pretty clear as to the depths of your inability ...

Hrm.. maybe i missed it, but where did he say you called anyone an asshole?

And I will call you "ignorant, hateful, asshole, troll, intolerant" - and i know exactly whet the words mean

And i don't think you ever respond in kind.. you often throw the first "punch" however by calling someone ignorant, or stupid, or otherwise.

eg: you are often insulting, insinuating that someone is stupid:
- "It appears you do not understand the argument. Nor can you comprehend the definition you pasted. Is english your primary language?' (ref)
- "The record of our comments is pretty clear as to the depths of your inability to reason. ... I know from all of our discussions your ability to reason is far from adequate." (ref)

That's just two of what I'm sure are dozens (or more) of comments where you attack ppeople because you disagree with them. You could have said the same thing without being a prick, but you didn't

Since willhelm will be leaving us, here's a few more willisms (just from that ONE clip!) we can all cherish and remember him by:

"The height of your refusal of reason and facts is troubling. There is no discourse to be had with people like you."

"I keep expecting someone to be able to have an intelligen conversation. I don't know why."

"Your illogic and lunacy is betraying your ability to be rational. Pitiful."

"My argument consists of actual ideas , yours of illusions and rhetoric, and materialism."

"If your choice is not to be educated, I cannot help you there."

"Excuse me as I get off the floor from laughing so hard. Man, are you ignorant."

Willhelm also just said:

"I rarely IF ...

Since willhelm will be leaving us, here's a few more willisms (just from that ONE clip!) we can all cherish and remember him by:

"The height of your refusal of reason and facts is troubling. There is no discourse to be had with people like you."

"I keep expecting someone to be able to have an intelligen conversation. I don't know why."

"Your illogic and lunacy is betraying your ability to be rational. Pitiful."

"My argument consists of actual ideas , yours of illusions and rhetoric, and materialism."

"If your choice is not to be educated, I cannot help you there."

"Excuse me as I get off the floor from laughing so hard. Man, are you ignorant."

Willhelm also just said:

"I rarely IF EVER respond in kind."

<yeah, right!>

I think that should more appropriately say:

"I rarely if EVER respond kindly"

Evil Poet's comments on his profile also speak to that also don't you think Bignosemousie?

Speak to how some users feel very unwelcome by certain comments and leave CM with a bad taste? Sure.

I had a pretty rough start here myself. I felt attacked in the very first thread I commented on, but I'm glad I hung in there. I have a nice relationship with that clipper now.

I'm not trying to excuse poor form (or nastiness) that occurs in a comment thread, but isn't this quite similar? It's a big long list of grievances about and perceived slights from a Clipper. Isn't there a better way than coming to the "Asshole of the week" clip and dumping on someone? Can't we just leave the...

Evil Poet's comments on his profile also speak to that also don't you think Bignosemousie?

Speak to how some users feel very unwelcome by certain comments and leave CM with a bad taste? Sure.

I had a pretty rough start here myself. I felt attacked in the very first thread I commented on, but I'm glad I hung in there. I have a nice relationship with that clipper now.

I'm not trying to excuse poor form (or nastiness) that occurs in a comment thread, but isn't this quite similar? It's a big long list of grievances about and perceived slights from a Clipper. Isn't there a better way than coming to the "Asshole of the week" clip and dumping on someone? Can't we just leave the nastiness in the clip instead of making a brand new one with such a catchy title to draw attention to how many people are aggrieved by a clipper's word choice or behavior?

I didn't want to give any weight to this clip the first time, but seeing it again makes me a little sick. As a community we can do better, and other clippers have.

To me, this clip makes that point.

It only illustrates how conservatives can be shouted down with hypocracy, herd-think, and disingenuous clamoring from childish-leftists. Especially when proven to be dishonest as Debbyski has been.

The only point it makes is that it is OK to call someone an asshole, but not OK to tell someone they are ignorant. God forbid your feelings get hurt. I'm ignorant about alot of things. Just not on the things I comment about. Ignorance is not a slur, it is a fact and when demonstrated I'll gladly let you know about it.

I do not lie like you Debbyski. I do not take things out of context and use them to misrepresent ideas like JK ( except for 1 obv...

To me, this clip makes that point.

It only illustrates how conservatives can be shouted down with hypocracy, herd-think, and disingenuous clamoring from childish-leftists. Especially when proven to be dishonest as Debbyski has been.

The only point it makes is that it is OK to call someone an asshole, but not OK to tell someone they are ignorant. God forbid your feelings get hurt. I'm ignorant about alot of things. Just not on the things I comment about. Ignorance is not a slur, it is a fact and when demonstrated I'll gladly let you know about it.

I do not lie like you Debbyski. I do not take things out of context and use them to misrepresent ideas like JK ( except for 1 obvious joke I recently pulled on Tpq ), and I do not engage in 1/50th of what I have been called or slurred. I could go on for hours on the things that have been said toward me. One person ( Merican ) even said they wish my wife would get my gun and kill me.
So you guys ARE idiots because to you calling someone an Asshole IS important and demonstrated by Debbyski's wonderful words of wisdom "makes a point".

The point it makes is a circular reasoned argument that really just points the finger back at you because you cannot engage in ideas.

Pitiful, funny, and entertaining.

Well, it proves Will is an asshole

It also proves that there are issues in having an "open and free' discussion without moderators. When someone can get away with calling another a name, or putting them down, etc, then this is what happens. When enough people feel bullied, they lash out in response.

This came up on CM's front page? Too bad. Then again, that's the point of CM right? to bring the important clips forward? Though this wasn't really a clip...

Unfortunately there is not other place this can be discussed. not like there is a public forum

Personally, I like that we have people on the extreme of both left & right, it keeps things more or less balanced... stops CM fro...

Well, it proves Will is an asshole

It also proves that there are issues in having an "open and free' discussion without moderators. When someone can get away with calling another a name, or putting them down, etc, then this is what happens. When enough people feel bullied, they lash out in response.

This came up on CM's front page? Too bad. Then again, that's the point of CM right? to bring the important clips forward? Though this wasn't really a clip...

Unfortunately there is not other place this can be discussed. not like there is a public forum

Personally, I like that we have people on the extreme of both left & right, it keeps things more or less balanced... stops CM from becoming too liberal or too Conservative. It hink it is that mix that draws many of us. I just wish some people (ie: willhelm) would be more civil