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10-5-2009 11:42 AM
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10-5-2009 12:43 PM
AcesLucky
Why didn't he ban honor killing? Child marriage. Female sexual mutilation? None of those are supposedly in the Koran, either.
10-5-2009 1:06 PM
ljsdesign
Female mutilation was banned in 2007, Egypts First Lady being the strongest supporter for the ban.
Hopefully, they will put a stop to the child marriage and honor killing soon.
10-5-2009 1:50 PM
arifsali
AcesLucky, good question. It helps when BBC (or any such big outlet) brings their microscope over to such edicts.
10-5-2009 3:51 PM
Antara
i guess it's a start ...... (we hope)
— Comment removed by moderator —
10-5-2009 3:55 PM
Antara
huh?
10-5-2009 4:07 PM
ljsdesign
Spam is like the flu, it never dies ,just mutates.
There is a new version where they put up a quote or saying along with the spammy links. I get this on my blog all the time.
10-5-2009 4:59 PM
Antara
aaahhhhh, k.
10-5-2009 5:29 PM
arifsali
BTW, the tradition dates back to medieval times, for example, see:

"The Muslim world, in turn, absorbed ideas and practices from Byzantine culture: face-veils for women, for example, were middle-class Byzantine fashion accessories."

http://medievalnews.blogspot.com/2007/09/review-of-byzantium-surprising-life-of.html

Also, within the Egyptian context, the dress of the Coptic Christians has also been a source of influence. See this photograph:

http://www.mostphotos.com/20549/Coptic-Orthodox-Christian-Wisdom
— Comment removed by clipper —
10-6-2009 7:08 AM
Johanna_G
The article said:

Sheikh Mohamed Tantawi, dean of al-Azhar university, called full-face veiling a custom that has nothing to do with the Islamic faith.
I don't want to disparage the relevance of the Sheikh's sentiment, in no way. But the fact of the matter is that a voice like his is only one in the polyphonic (and I say, cacophonous) score of multitudinous Islamic voices. Muslims don't believe in a catholic (universal), pope-like authority (nevertheless, many if not most of them follow the preachings of a picked set of sheikhs, imams or ayatollahs).
10-6-2009 10:29 AM
Jorjor
I forget whose "law" this is, but there is a rule about long-lived institutions (such as a religion or a government) that they cannot survive more than four generations without deviating significantly from their founding intent.

This explains how practices and beliefs that were never part of the original package become part of the mainstream.
10-6-2009 12:07 PM
arifsali
many if not most of them follow the preachings of a picked set
I would do some search on the history and the contemporary history of Al-Azhar university. Even though there is no pope, the university itself is "the most" influential entity.
10-7-2009 8:56 AM
Johanna_G
"the most" influential entity
So what?
The 1991 Shafi'i manual of Islamic Law 'Umdat al-Salik, endorsed by the Islamic Research Academy at Al-Azhar, the most prestigious centre of learning in Sunni Islam, states:

"Leaving Islam is the ugliest form of unbelief (kufr) and the worst…When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostasizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed. In such a case, it is obligatory…to ask him to repent and return to Islam. If he does it is accepted from him, but if he refuses, he is immediately killed."

[Source: [url=http://www.islam-watch.org/Fjordman/Islam-Compatible-with-Democracy3.htm]Islam Watch - "Is Islam Compatible with ...
10-7-2009 10:48 AM
arifsali
Johanna_G, what does one fatwa has to do with another? If people are not following them than they won't follow no matter what kind of edict they issue (good or bad depending on anyone's perception). This does not diminish the reputation of the institute (I'm not trying to defend this university). The whole point was that someone from that university issued an edict which makes sense and BBC ran the story. I am only glad they that, that's all.
10-7-2009 1:23 PM
Johanna_G
If people are not following them then they won't follow no matter what kind of edict they issue (good or bad depending on anyone's perception).
Agreed. That's what I said.
I am only glad they [issued] that, that's all.
So am I. All I wanted was to recall the fact that there are antithetic voices in the Islamic polyphony. No surprise - cloaking the entire female body (be it including the eyes or not) is an item of the Qur'an and of the sunnah:
The Noble Qur'an - Al-Ahzab 33:59

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils)* all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or...
10-7-2009 2:03 PM
arifsali
Yes and yes. You will have to read the Qur'an in it's Arabian context. You must be familiar with the 'case of necklace'. Plus it is already known that these restrictions were for the wives of the Prophet. Islam is not frozen in the 7th century Arabia (as much as opponents may try to convince otherwise). Any case, I see variations in the translation of your above quoted 33:59. The issue may be debatable but that's where the Ijtihad comes in and once again to go back to the original topic of the clip, Egypt's highest Muslim authority has released a verdict which first of all will be relevant to Egypt's cultural context (not Islam, not Pakistan, not Indonesia).

I'm not really sure what y...
10-7-2009 3:48 PM
Johanna_G
it is merely a news report
I see. But what does that report and its subject mean to Muslims and non-Muslims (like me) respectively? I can't concur with your focussing the relevance of the Sheikh's opinion on Egypt, for the sources he refers to are believed to be of universal relevance, and it's just those sources - the Qur'an and the sunnah - which can evoke and justify views (and beliefs) that dissent from the Sheikh's opinion.

I am not trying to debate anything. I only advert to the problem the Islamic scholars have with the fact that in Islam, on the one hand, not only Muslim habits at the time of Mohammed but also pre-Islamic Arabic customs and, on the other hand, substa...
10-7-2009 5:12 PM
arifsali
Okay, now that we're not debating anything, allow me to say that Islam is not a monolith and there is diversity in it across the cultural and religio-political history. Not every Muslim women wears hijab and not everyone follows Hadiths to all degree. Hadith literature is in itself contentious and it is not a replacement for man's own intellect in reasoning the way of life (Islam) according to the time and context. It is man's own responsibility to identify what is faith and what is culture and how it is interwoven and affects one's life. I know there is lot of literalism among extremist quarters and majority follows the whims and fancy of their local imams, shaikhs etc (as you mention...
10-8-2009 2:50 AM
Johanna_G
Islam is not a monolith
I know
there is diversity in it across the cultural and religio-political history
That's, in a nutshell, what I have been saying.
It is man's own responsibility to identify what is faith and what is culture and how it is interwoven and affects one's life.
I agree. Unfortunately, that's not a common opinion of (Islamic or Christian) clergymen.
Non-Muslims would be wise to not paint everyone with the same brush.
You push at an open door.
10-23-2009 3:32 PM
Johanna_G
Sumerian temple priestesses wore veils in 5000 B.C. In 1300 B.C., Assyrian kings introduced the veil for married and wealthy women. This is similar to the Byzantines (4th to 5th centuries A.D.), the Sassanids (c. 224-652 A.D.), in Ancient Greece and old Rome, where to be veiled was a privilege reserved for high society.
So the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar University Mohammed Sayed al-Tantawi is absolutely right when he describes the niqab as a tradition from a pre-Islamic era. But this view has not made the theologian [...].
[...]
The Grand Mufti of Dubai [...] spoke of a "restriction of the freedom of women," and said the move was "in total contempt of their faith, their culture and thei...
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