 masbury says: Episcopal priest makes interesting argument Indeed. We ought to "render unto [the pagans] the things that are [pagan], and unto God the things that are God's". It's high-time Christians abandoned Xmas. It is a good time for retreat. excellent clip! Ah, CHRISTmas is about Christ....DUH! Easter is Too! Well passover is anyway. Easter is a pagan holiday about the coming of Spring "Jesus is coming! HIDE THE EGGS!" POP Good one masbury. Thanks Excellent points. More resourses here http://thehistoryofchristmas.com/christmas_history.htm You're treading on very thin ice, there, Masbury. But damn, I do applaud your bravery! I'll help you not fall down Masbury, not that you need it  Hell, the whole Jesus myth is Pagan right from beginning to end. Christianity is nothing more than the continuation of Pagan ritual and mythology. That WAS NOT CHRISTMAS! It was something else! This is Christmas.C-H-R-I-S-T The solstice and a dozen other celebrations were/are on or near that day, and that is fine. THEY CAN EVEN BE ON THE SAME DAY. There is a separate thing that has been celebrated in America to mark the birth of Christ and America has called it Christmas. It offends you and that is unfortunate. THERE IS NO RIGHT TO REMAIN UN-OFFENDED! But you will have to live with it. No acrobatic argument can change the fact. You are free to celebrate solstice, or the way Old Europe may have celebrated KrisKringle or something -- Whatever. Traditional American Christmas is DIFFERENT AND SEPARATE from whatever you argue has been "alte... I'm not even an "active" Christian, whatever that means. But I am truly amazed at the aggressive attack that simply does not abate. What is your people's problem? Some one up there called the clipper brave. I don't know who is more petty and hung-up (neurotic? obsessed?) the comment-er or the clipper. Y'all are REALLY quite humorous. Would it ease the anxiety if the name was changed and America kept its federal holiday on 12/25 and churches marked the birth of Jesus with reverence at midnight mass the way it is done now? Would THAT solve your inability to understand that we have an American tradition and FEDERAL HOLIDAY? You'd do better to find some calm and the spirit of the season, hopeful... Bravery..  There are some very good reasons why Christians should give up the fight to reassert ownership of Christmas and to stop resisting its so-called secularization.If you don't like Christmas fine, don't acknowledge it. You far-left are unrelenting in your quest. You try your best to abolish every tradition in this country that is in any way associated with religion, what a bunch of scrooges you are. We do not own Christmas, we merely choose to celebrate it. We don't have a christmas tree this year - we chose to put up the manger scene in the living room instead. I think it is more appropriate for the angels to bring the gifts to the children anyway. I will clip pictures soon. Sigh . . . Does anyone else notice the writing style of D1211, Bit, and someone else we know very well here at CM? Three guesses, the first two do not count. Sigh...Does anyone else notice the writing style of D1211, Bit,What an airhead debbyski, if you think I'm someone else, contact the admin, I only have one account here at CMs and after viewing some of your clips you have one too many, do you clip anything other than smut? OK, I will. smut and hate... and calls people -"fascist-lesbo-bitches" Yes this is the second time she has made that remark about me being someone else and with all the dribble she yaks I felt inclined to call her out this time. I don't like her remarks or the filth she posts but that's her business but when she injects her comments to me she will get a reply. She is a sad sort, dl211. Yes this is the second time she has made that remark about me being someone else and with all the dribble she yaks I felt inclined to call her out this time. I don't like her remarks or the filth she posts but that's her business. However, when she directs her comments to me she will get a reply. Post should rather read "Liberating Christianity from Christmas". Early American Christians, like the Pilgrims, later Presbyterians and Baptists, rejected the "holy day" as a pagan and popish superstition who fully recognized its historical roots. Christmas is not Christian, it is paganism repainted, and should not be "established" as a federal holiday, contrary to the Constitution. It represents in fact a form of religious, in this case ecumenical, tyranny from which dissenting Christians once fled, resisting the Church of England. This proves America has come full circle, now establishing what it once resisted, and showing the modern churches are as corrupt as the English one that they fled from. One more thing, Sol Victus, is the Sun, which the Purtians proved was Baal, under various forms. Like it or not, incorporating pagan traditions into religious holidays is a part of history. It was a way of trying to incorporate new converts. I actually learned this from a Roman Catholic Cardinal. It's like the" Kyrie Elaison, Christie Elaison" ( which is Greek) in the Latin Mass. It was added in during the early days of the church as a way of welcoming the Greek converts once Christianity hit Greece. Did the meaning of the season change to the Cristian Christ -Mass, yes. Is it changing again, yes. More and more non-christians are adopting the holiday. Maybe it's because of marketing, I do not know. I would hope that the ideal of goodwill to all mankind might be part of it. Again , I do not know, but I do hope so. BTW, great clip Masbury. ...American tradition and FEDERAL HOLIDAY? Take a look at the First Amendment, my friend. OK, I willPlease take my previous description of your mental state, and add paranoid schizophrenic. Indeed. We ought to "render unto [the pagans] the things that are [pagan], and unto God the things that are God's". It's high-time Christians abandoned Xmas.Render, render, render...  Seriously, though most of the customs, etc of Christmas did merge with the pagan celebration of the return of the sun, I don't think it should matter so much in modern times. Educated people know that Christmas is a celebration of Christ (whether the birthday is historically accurate or not); that Winter Solstice/Yule are pagan, and so forth. The "reason for the season" is not whose name it's in. The reason is about the increased goodwill that people in general show each o... Bravo, wiccantexan - you got it! My point (and the point of the clip author) was simply that it isn't worth fighting over. The holiday as we have it is simply a Victorian-era nostalgia-fest (I'll be home for Christ- mas ...). The "keep Christ in Christmas" fight is just a case of good but defensive people becoming convinced a wave of secularity was usurping the way "Christian America" used to be. Tiny Tim's "God bless us, every one!" is about as spiritual as Christmas ever was. Certainly, the Founding Fathers never knew a Christmas in the mold that many Americans assume someone has taken away from them. It's a fight to preserve something that never was, and is simply not worth... BTW, Davboz and dl211: I'm not about taking anything away - I'm just saying it isn't a fight worth fighting. And, scarcely far left, I'm a pastor in a denomination that is certainly not know for liberalism; I just advocate that Christians would do well to care about what Jesus cared about. If only... I agree with Davboz. Christmas is just that, CHRIST'S MASS. It's a christian festival and they should be allowed to keep it. I'm an atheist careworker who lives alone and I shall be treating Christmas day like any other and will be going to work as usual (earning triple pay for my troubles )Christmas will disappear anyway when all the christians see the light and become atheists Surely we who want to live out the example of Jesus have matters that are more clearly Biblical passions of Christ - like people who are poor and ill, for instance - to defend.Precisely Masbury! In her recent book about the working poor in America, Barbara Ehrenreich writes about going to a tent revival in Portland Maine. The preacher's theme was "Jesus on the Cross" and the importance of believing in him in order to go to heaven. As she listened to him and looked around the mostly impoverished audience she thought: "It would be nice if someone would read this sad-eyed crowd the Sermon On The Mount, accompanied by a rousing commentary on income inequality a... Wow, excellent, debbyski! Debbyski, your comment was so good I posted it on my blog: Ehrenreich cuts through the fog. Thanks again! I recommend the book for anyone who gets the time Masbury. We have all been warned about putting traditions before God. It's in the Bible... Debbyski, thanks for the tip. I benefited much from her earlier book Nickel and Dimed: on not getting by in America, and would recommend it to others, also, especially to those good folks who are of the opinion that anybody who really wants to can make it in the USA. Her blog is useful, too, at Barbara Ehrenreich comments on working in America. Was the book you read called Bait and Switch? rfnajera: excellent comment - you are right, of course, and I hadn't thought of it in this context until now. Thanks! That quote is actually from nickled and dimed Masbury! It says a lot about substitutionary atonement and what the story of the resurrection means to me; that is, about a life that is fair, just, and equitable and Jesus' willingness to sacrifice his life for it. @rfnajera; I agree. |
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