Is there any point in being moral if there is no god? If you really need the fear that someone is watching over your shoulder in order to be motivated to be fair and honest in the way you treat others, you really are a small, small person. Is there any point in being moral if there is no god?You should be a good and moral person because it's the right thing to do, regardless of whether there is a God or heavenly reward attached to the good behavior. It should be a point of humanity to treat each other with respect and dignity. If you really need the fear that someone is watching over your shoulderTrue, if this is ones prime motivation. It should be a point of humanity to treat each other with respect and dignity.But to what end? Why bother doing the right thing in what is surely transforming into a simple game of "survival of the fittest"? You do the right thing because it is a means to its own end. Because we are social creatures that depend on one another and we want to live in a good, moral world. Having it ordained by some higher power does not make that more or less relevant, or logical. But to what end? Why bother doing the right thing in what is surely transforming into a simple game of "survival of the fittest"?To move beyond the simply "survival of the fittest" mode. We as intellectually evolved beings are capable of creating and maintaining civilization with or without a religious structure. ratifar, no one will care when you are dead and gone, not even you. To move beyond the simply "survival of the fittest" mode.And this will happen when? We will all find out in the end. Eternity is a long time if you are wrong. no one will care when you are dead and gone, not even you.That is a matter of opinion, not fact. So it's not an argument that supports NOT being a moral person sans a God or religious belief. I personally believe that the soul (or whatever name you choose), the essence of who we are, is eternal. Our moral behavior, our choices in each life, impact upon it. So even when the physical body is dead and gone, we will remember - those who knew us and find us again on the other side will care and remember. So for me at least, this is taken into account. And it doesn't involve whether or not there is a Deity. I wasn't aware that Atheists believed in an afterlife. And the only reason that people might have a problem with the existence of a god is because of the havoc that God has permitted man to wreak upon his fellow man. This and natural disasters, but mostly the former. I wasn't aware that Atheists believed in an afterlife.I don't believe they do, but this discussion is about morality in general sans belief in a Deity, not just about the atheist view. As for what God has "permitted man to do," again, that is based on a belief system, not mankind as a whole. I have no issue with the existence of a God, but mine does not dictate my behavior based on punishment/reward. None of the above is a final argument on whether one can only be a moral person sans a Deity. but mine does not dictate my behavior based on punishment/reward.That is what Cjartists was saying. Would "punishment/reward" be such a bad thing if you were a god? If your dog continually bites you, you would surely get rid of it. ratifar, no one will care when you are dead and gone, not even you.And your point is? How does believing in a higher power or the divine change that? Unless you know my relatives, in which case I agree, they are a right bunch of bastards! It changes it because if there is no god or afterlife, there is really no good reason to behave ones self. Why should I bother when I could just run wild ? This being much more fun than conforming to someones philosophy of doing good works. I hear ya in the "relatives" dept. So the only reason why I would do good is to avoid eternal suffering? I guess Buddhist are screwed then, since some of them don't even have a Hell! So no Hell, no morals. Does not compute. Would "punishment/reward" be such a bad thing if you were a god? If your dog continually bites you, you would surely get rid of it.I DID "get rid of my dog." I changed to the religion where the dog isn't continually biting me.  Wiccantexan, Newsflash: It wasn't the religion that was biting you, it was the congregation.  So the only reason why I would do good is to avoid eternal suffering?That is a logical way to perceive it, but according to the "book", there is nothing "good" a man can do to "purchase" eternal life. On the other hand, if it were true that good works kept you from eternal suffering, I know I would be producing good works by the truckload. Wiccantexan, Newsflash: It wasn't the religion that was biting you, it was the congregationSorry, kid, I never formally attended church after age 14. But I've met some individuals who need rabies shots. If there is no God, then someone needs to explain to me, how did we get here? I know the pact answer, "mother nature" did it with evolution, but this will leave out "design". How did "mother nature" figure out the complex systems in the human body and make it all work harmoniously? When did "mother nature" learn about optics to design the human eye? Where did she learn about the 1100 chemicals the liver produces for the chemical reactions required by our bodies? Why is there so much physical beauty around us, the color of flowers, the blue sky, the beautiful mountains etc when no other creature on the earth appreciates it but man? If it is possible there is a "grand designer" who w... If there is no God, then someone needs to explain to me, how did we get here? If it is possible there is a "grand designer" who we call God, then how do we find out more about Him? He did leave a book behind. The flaw here is the assumption that the Creator, the one who designed it all, is the God of the Bible and that's the end of that. "God' means ONLY that definition. My personal belief is that there is a higher power within all things that exist, beyond our human comprehension, that we culturally manifest as Deity. All these mysteries you named are part of, and the creation of, the One. By asking the same questions you posted, I came to Wicca and the God an... I just don't understand the point of the advertising. Are they trying to get followers to join some Church of Atheists? At least with religious advertising they're just trying to gather people towards something that has a purpose. I believe it's the pendulum swing effect, like the women's movement, etc. Sometimes things just reach a cultural tipping point. I would guess some atheists simply had had enough of a particular point of view dissing them. A question for the sake of discussion. Why do you feel that non-religionists do not have a purpose? How would the idea of no Deity mean that advertisement of that viewpoint is without purpose? When someone tries to define God they lost It. When asked why are we here, then, if there is no God--I say, "to hold each other up"....that's enough for me to be moral. He did leave a book behind"She" left lots of books behind, don't be so male/christian centric! She/He God/Goddess did not write and leave a book behind. Men over several hundred years wrote a book which has been severely edited, translated and interpreted over the years. If there is a Supreme Being or not there is no reason not to be a good person. |
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