If you did some real research on Muslim violence I think you would come up with quite different odds.

In the words of the victims themselves:
Nothing like this has ever happened to us before.

Yes. Nothing like this ever before. So ask yourself: Why now?

It is like what has happened here in Ireland with the sudden emergence of the 'Blasphemy Law'.....Ireland has a very small (relative) Muslim populace, but it doesn't matter. I attended a conference recently where it was basically accepted as a given amongst those who job it is to study such matters, that indeed it is the OIC (Muslim Brotherhood) that is behind most, if not all, of the current crop of anti-free speech/Blasphemy laws.

I st...

If you did some real research on Muslim violence I think you would come up with quite different odds.

In the words of the victims themselves:
Nothing like this has ever happened to us before.

Yes. Nothing like this ever before. So ask yourself: Why now?

It is like what has happened here in Ireland with the sudden emergence of the 'Blasphemy Law'.....Ireland has a very small (relative) Muslim populace, but it doesn't matter. I attended a conference recently where it was basically accepted as a given amongst those who job it is to study such matters, that indeed it is the OIC (Muslim Brotherhood) that is behind most, if not all, of the current crop of anti-free speech/Blasphemy laws.

I stand by my prediction, just like I have yet to meet ONE Christian who is in favor of the stone age/ridiculous/insane Blasphemy Law, I doubt there are any 'evil Christians' threatening these folks with death either.

Frankly, I think you know that as well.

You seem to miss the point, from the view of the Muslim Brotherhood, borders don't exist...the whole world belongs to Allah. I am talking about evidence of these types of tactics being used, and by who.

There are plenty of cases --right now--all over the globe where death threats are being used in exactly the way these people have been threatened and for similar reasons. You mentioning "the troubles" (Irish fighting Irish---talk about "apples and oranges") has no relevance at all to this issue, whereas the Blasphemy law does, since there are many other laws being proposed (one in the UN currently as well, endorsed by Obama!) happening as we type.

It's pretty clear you are going to cling t...

You seem to miss the point, from the view of the Muslim Brotherhood, borders don't exist...the whole world belongs to Allah. I am talking about evidence of these types of tactics being used, and by who.

There are plenty of cases --right now--all over the globe where death threats are being used in exactly the way these people have been threatened and for similar reasons. You mentioning "the troubles" (Irish fighting Irish---talk about "apples and oranges") has no relevance at all to this issue, whereas the Blasphemy law does, since there are many other laws being proposed (one in the UN currently as well, endorsed by Obama!) happening as we type.

It's pretty clear you are going to cling to blaming a Christian for this, no matter what evidence to the contrary is shown. So, I will just leave it at that.

I did not make that claim anywhere.

That is true. I made that claim. Who is silly now?

It's pretty clear you are going to cling to blaming a Christian for this, no matter what evidence to the contrary is shown.

Well, there actually is no "evidence" who initiated these threats. Given the religious makeup of this country and evidently having a better understanding of culture and society in this country it remains my opinion that a Christian was in all likelihood responsible for these threats. Christians in the States are routinely whining about being persecuted. Even though the aforementioned billboard could not by any reasonable person be construed as an attack...

I did not make that claim anywhere.

That is true. I made that claim. Who is silly now?

It's pretty clear you are going to cling to blaming a Christian for this, no matter what evidence to the contrary is shown.

Well, there actually is no "evidence" who initiated these threats. Given the religious makeup of this country and evidently having a better understanding of culture and society in this country it remains my opinion that a Christian was in all likelihood responsible for these threats. Christians in the States are routinely whining about being persecuted. Even though the aforementioned billboard could not by any reasonable person be construed as an attack on Christianity it is quite common for Christians here to take offense at any comment which could even in the slightest way be a refutation of their dogma. And by your comments, it seems that the same mindset exists overseas as well.

As far as Muslims are concerned, as an atheist, I do not believe in their deity either. And as you might remember, the US had a bit of a run in with their own brand of fanaticism back in 2001. So I am well aware of what they are capable of. And there is the little issue of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Factoring in all these issues still leaves me with the impression that Christians, in all likelihood, were responsible for the threats. Muslims here have been quite cowed by the militant Christians here. It is my experience that the ones that have it in their minds to plot violence are quite secretive and rarely broadcast their intentions beforehand.

That is true. I made that claim. Who is silly now?

Well you are as silly as he, possibly more so, since I never made the claim at all---yet and you both falsely accused me of making it.
Really, could you possibly look sillier?

The silliness continues here, and given the events at Fort Hood just last week, stunningly silly, but more akin really to a scared child whistling in the dark:

As far as Muslims are concerned, as an atheist, I do not believe in
their deity either. And as you might remember, the US had a bit of a
run in with their own brand of fanaticism back in 2001.

Your anti-christian agenda is obvious. We know there is no way of knowing who did t...

That is true. I made that claim. Who is silly now?

Well you are as silly as he, possibly more so, since I never made the claim at all---yet and you both falsely accused me of making it.
Really, could you possibly look sillier?

The silliness continues here, and given the events at Fort Hood just last week, stunningly silly, but more akin really to a scared child whistling in the dark:

As far as Muslims are concerned, as an atheist, I do not believe in
their deity either. And as you might remember, the US had a bit of a
run in with their own brand of fanaticism back in 2001.

Your anti-christian agenda is obvious. We know there is no way of knowing who did this, and despite the fact I have shown you the evidence of this exact type of tactic being used, right now, all over the globe, you try desperately to slough off the suggestion of it being an Islamic motivated attack as "whiny".

Truly amazing!

you both falsely accused me of making it.

Oh, really. I accused you of making that claim? Is your christian paranoia acting up again? You really need to improve your reading comprehension.

Your anti-christian agenda is obvious

Actually that should be my anti-theist agenda.

you try desperately to slough off the suggestion of it being an Islamic motivated attack as "whiny".

Are you dyslexic? My comment about Christian whining was directed at Christians here in the US crying about being persecuted any time anyone criticizes them. Get a grip man.

And I've commented that I was fully aware of the threats made by Muslims. You are simply outraged tha...

you both falsely accused me of making it.

Oh, really. I accused you of making that claim? Is your christian paranoia acting up again? You really need to improve your reading comprehension.

Your anti-christian agenda is obvious

Actually that should be my anti-theist agenda.

you try desperately to slough off the suggestion of it being an Islamic motivated attack as "whiny".

Are you dyslexic? My comment about Christian whining was directed at Christians here in the US crying about being persecuted any time anyone criticizes them. Get a grip man.

And I've commented that I was fully aware of the threats made by Muslims. You are simply outraged that anyone could imply that loving Christians could be responsible for the threats directed towards the people whose sites these billboards are on. Go and whine elsewhere.

From personal experience, my mother-in-law (a fundamentalist christian and 80 years old), along with other fundamentalist acquaintances, have no compunction about anonymously calling in death threats to private citizens who don't tow the line in accordance with her preacher. If she was younger and could stand up, she would march in front of her local family planning clinic and shout the usual combination of spiritual and corporal curses and threats to both staff and clients. She donates money to organizations who promote Obama's assassination (along with other targeted public figures, legalization of stoning, burning and mutilation for those who don't tow her biblical line (like atheists and...

From personal experience, my mother-in-law (a fundamentalist christian and 80 years old), along with other fundamentalist acquaintances, have no compunction about anonymously calling in death threats to private citizens who don't tow the line in accordance with her preacher. If she was younger and could stand up, she would march in front of her local family planning clinic and shout the usual combination of spiritual and corporal curses and threats to both staff and clients. She donates money to organizations who promote Obama's assassination (along with other targeted public figures, legalization of stoning, burning and mutilation for those who don't tow her biblical line (like atheists and other non-christians". Her definition of christianity is quite narrow and condemns Catholics, Episcopalians, Methodists, certain Baptist churches and MANY others. So yeah, I'd say that fundamentalist christians are certainly good candidates for the threats.

She donates money to organizations who promote Obama's assassination
(along with other targeted public figures, legalization of stoning,
burning and mutilation for those who don't tow her biblical line (like
atheists and other non-christians"

I hope you report her to the FBI asap !!!?

Please share with us which groups are fundraising for Obama's assassination?

This is quite alarming that you have admitted here to having a family member who is actively and financially trying to have the President of the United States murdered!

*************************************************************************
as an aside:

1. I checked this story out on a number of different forums...

She donates money to organizations who promote Obama's assassination
(along with other targeted public figures, legalization of stoning,
burning and mutilation for those who don't tow her biblical line (like
atheists and other non-christians"

I hope you report her to the FBI asap !!!?

Please share with us which groups are fundraising for Obama's assassination?

This is quite alarming that you have admitted here to having a family member who is actively and financially trying to have the President of the United States murdered!

*************************************************************************
as an aside:

1. I checked this story out on a number of different forums and almost the exact same conversation has played out in varying forms.

2. Muslim population in Ohio is in and around 200,000....from what I could piece together.

Oh, really. I accused you of making that claim? Is your christian
paranoia acting up again? You really need to improve your reading
comprehension.

Um, alrighty then. Please tell me what you are referring to here:

Apples and oranges. Did you stop and consider that perhaps your culture
differs significantly from mine? And to claim that Irish history is
rosy with no Christian violence seems rather pointless.

Who is it then you are citing as making that claim?

And I've commented that I was fully aware of the threats made by
Muslims. You are simply outraged that anyone could imply that loving
Christians could be responsible for the threats directed towards t...

read more»

Oh, really. I accused you of making that claim? Is your christian
paranoia acting up again? You really need to improve your reading
comprehension.

Um, alrighty then. Please tell me what you are referring to here:

Apples and oranges. Did you stop and consider that perhaps your culture
differs significantly from mine? And to claim that Irish history is
rosy with no Christian violence seems rather pointless.

Who is it then you are citing as making that claim?

And I've commented that I was fully aware of the threats made by
Muslims. You are simply outraged that anyone could imply that loving
Christians could be responsible for the threats directed towards the
people whose sites these billboards are on. Go and whine elsewhere.

Incredibly, you cite an 9/11 when you have Fort Hood and numerous other more recent acts before you. Why would someone who is 'fully aware of the threats made by Muslims" do that?

Finally,

Actually that should be my anti-theist agenda.

See, that is what I assumed you were, an equal opportunity atheist. But this exchange (along with the title of the clip!) has made clear you have made up your mind as to what happened. All I wanted to do was present the very real possibility that it could have been an Islamic attack, as there have been actual murders of late. I wrongly assumed you would find this global push for anti-free speech legislation happening simultaneously to be interesting. I hardly thought you would dismiss it, LOL


(btw, this post of yours only appeared on my screen now, after mcsmithblack's post.....very strange)

Um, alrighty then. Please tell me what you are referring to here:

Your reference to the anti-islamic sentiment in Europe (can't say I'm entirely opposed to people pushing back against the introduction of Sharia styled laws though). My comments were directed towards the climate here in the US. I believe ratifar was commenting on the comment I made concerning the "troubles" in Ireland.

Incredibly, you cite an 9/11 when you have Fort Hood and numerous other
more recent acts before you. Why would someone who is 'fully aware of
the threats made by Muslims" do that?

The article I clipped had nothing to do with 9/11. I brought that up to answer your comment that seem...

Um, alrighty then. Please tell me what you are referring to here:

Your reference to the anti-islamic sentiment in Europe (can't say I'm entirely opposed to people pushing back against the introduction of Sharia styled laws though). My comments were directed towards the climate here in the US. I believe ratifar was commenting on the comment I made concerning the "troubles" in Ireland.

Incredibly, you cite an 9/11 when you have Fort Hood and numerous other
more recent acts before you. Why would someone who is 'fully aware of
the threats made by Muslims" do that?

The article I clipped had nothing to do with 9/11. I brought that up to answer your comment that seemed to intimate that I was not aware of extremist Muslims.

has made clear you have made up your mind as to what happened.

On the contrary, I've pointed out over and over (ad nauseam) that in my opinion it was probably a fundamentalist Christian who made the threats. I arrived at that by my experiences living my entire life in this country and am well aware of the reactions of the fundamentalist christians to this type of activity.

I wrongly assumed you would find this global push for anti-free speech
legislation happening simultaneously to be interesting. I hardly
thought you would dismiss it, LOL

I do find it interesting. But not every threat is Islamic. There are enough fanatics of all religions to supply all the threats we can possibly handle. As I've stated over and over, due to the wacko fundamentalists here in the States we have no shortage of people to make mortal threats. And I'm reasonably positive that in the US we have a overwhelming majority of Christian crazies compared to Islamic crazies. The odds are still in my favor.

But not every threat is Islamic.

1. I never ever claimed all threats were Islamic.


2. And once again, this comment from you:

Apples and oranges. Did you stop and consider that perhaps your culture differs significantly from mine? And to claim that Irish history is rosy with no Christian violence seems rather pointless.

No where,and at no time, did I make any claim as to there being a 'rosy Christian Irish non violent history'. No where.
So even if , as you now say :

My comments were directed towards the climate here in the US. I believe
ratifar was commenting on the comment I made concerning the "troubles"
in Ireland.

You still haven't ex...

But not every threat is Islamic.

1. I never ever claimed all threats were Islamic.


2. And once again, this comment from you:

Apples and oranges. Did you stop and consider that perhaps your culture differs significantly from mine? And to claim that Irish history is rosy with no Christian violence seems rather pointless.

No where,and at no time, did I make any claim as to there being a 'rosy Christian Irish non violent history'. No where.
So even if , as you now say :

My comments were directed towards the climate here in the US. I believe
ratifar was commenting on the comment I made concerning the "troubles"
in Ireland.

You still haven't explained who made this claim that you are appearing to dismiss as ridiclous? It had no basis at all, since I never mentioned it, and it had absolutely no relevance to the topic.I am being persistant on this point becuase it created the 'silly' diversion and I find it funny that you are still defending it, lol. Just admit it was a mistake!

And I'm reasonably positive that in the US we have a overwhelming
majority of Christian crazies compared to Islamic crazies. The odds are
still in my favor.

I am not invested in it being any particular group that is found guilty---despite your hilarious accusation that I am 'devasted' to imagine it might be a Christian of whatever description, lol.
Hardly.
I am however, due to recent research and study of these anti-free speech and 'Blasphemy Laws', quite alarmed at the line in the story that says "this has never happened to us before" and have my attention tuned in now to these kinds of cases that seem to arise out of no-where (just like the Blasphemy Law in Ireland, which is why I mentioned it to begin with!!!) It was the 'sudden' and urgent push to have it made LAW that has many quite baffled.

I know for a fact this type of behavior is not limited to any particular society today....it is a Global phenomenon, and happening

Your comment:

I doubt there are any 'evil Christians' threatening these folks with death either.

I then made the comment about "the troubles" in Ireland as an example in the recent past about Christian violence as a rebuttal to your comment. Not being Irish myself, if I misconstrued this please illuminate me.

It was the 'sudden' and urgent push to have it made LAW that has many quite baffled.

Just as we in the States are concerned by the encroachment of religion into our secular government. Only in our case it is the Christian faction that is spearheading that drive.

Should we all remain vigilant for terrorist threats, no matter what flavor they are - of cour...

Your comment:

I doubt there are any 'evil Christians' threatening these folks with death either.

I then made the comment about "the troubles" in Ireland as an example in the recent past about Christian violence as a rebuttal to your comment. Not being Irish myself, if I misconstrued this please illuminate me.

It was the 'sudden' and urgent push to have it made LAW that has many quite baffled.

Just as we in the States are concerned by the encroachment of religion into our secular government. Only in our case it is the Christian faction that is spearheading that drive.

Should we all remain vigilant for terrorist threats, no matter what flavor they are - of course. Should we view all mosques as training grounds for terrorists? Only if we are willing to include all churches too. Naturally that is absurd.

Just as we in the States are concerned by the encroachment of religion
into our secular government. Only in our case it is the Christian
faction that is spearheading that drive.

No, I am sorry, you are really not listening to what I have been trying to tell you right from the start. The OIC is extremely powerful in the USA, and I have already told you that OBAMA has signed on to this terrible 'human rights' UN bullcrap which is designed to muzzle any criticism of ISLAM. I believe this same org is behind the Blasphemy crud in Ireland and other places.

If you took one day to research some of this, you will see its true.

But frankly, if you really think the following is a reason...

Just as we in the States are concerned by the encroachment of religion
into our secular government. Only in our case it is the Christian
faction that is spearheading that drive.

No, I am sorry, you are really not listening to what I have been trying to tell you right from the start. The OIC is extremely powerful in the USA, and I have already told you that OBAMA has signed on to this terrible 'human rights' UN bullcrap which is designed to muzzle any criticism of ISLAM. I believe this same org is behind the Blasphemy crud in Ireland and other places.

If you took one day to research some of this, you will see its true.

But frankly, if you really think the following is a reasonable statement, there is no point in saying anything further:

Should we view all mosques as training grounds for terrorists? Only if
we are willing to include all churches too. Naturally that is absurd.

Absurd is right.


I am done.

I am a Christian.

However, I would much rather deal with an honest atheist than the flag-and-Bible-waving brigade that is sweeping across America right now.

These people are in my eyes not Christians at all. They just use the word Christianity to lure the innocent into their evil den of right wing racial hatred, xenophobia and warmongering.

They stand for every single thing that a real Christian could never support. Their support for perpetual war is shining example. Their hatred of Muslim another. Their abuse of the Bible to justify hatred against gays yet another. Not to mention their support for the death penalty.

As a Christian I don't want anything to do with these people. They are...

I am a Christian.

However, I would much rather deal with an honest atheist than the flag-and-Bible-waving brigade that is sweeping across America right now.

These people are in my eyes not Christians at all. They just use the word Christianity to lure the innocent into their evil den of right wing racial hatred, xenophobia and warmongering.

They stand for every single thing that a real Christian could never support. Their support for perpetual war is shining example. Their hatred of Muslim another. Their abuse of the Bible to justify hatred against gays yet another. Not to mention their support for the death penalty.

As a Christian I don't want anything to do with these people. They are the Taliban of America and if given free reign they will turn the country into a fascist state where reason plays no role whatsoever.

Another non-sensical comment.
But keep trying !

Have I deprived you or anyone else of their "opinion"?

No.

I merely pointed out, right from the beginning, that this attack could have been perpetrated by an Islamic group, as this 'death-threat' tactic and type of activity is being played out currently in many places all over the globe, most notably through the anti-freedom/Blasphemy laws. However, there are numerous other examples of violence, again from all over the globe.

The fact you are unaware of this (please don't cite 9/11 again as evidence of your 'awareness', lol) , and don't like appearing foolish (who does?) is why I think you are making such wildly inaccurate statements about...

Another non-sensical comment.
But keep trying !

Have I deprived you or anyone else of their "opinion"?

No.

I merely pointed out, right from the beginning, that this attack could have been perpetrated by an Islamic group, as this 'death-threat' tactic and type of activity is being played out currently in many places all over the globe, most notably through the anti-freedom/Blasphemy laws. However, there are numerous other examples of violence, again from all over the globe.

The fact you are unaware of this (please don't cite 9/11 again as evidence of your 'awareness', lol) , and don't like appearing foolish (who does?) is why I think you are making such wildly inaccurate statements about my position throughout.

And that's fine, I don't take it personally. I just marvel at the lengths you will go to try and paint this exchange as something it was not.

I merely pointed out, right from the beginning, that this attack could have been perpetrated by an Islamic group

It could have. I've never disputed this outright. I think it much more likely that it was a fanatical Christian since this is right up their alley. The US has a history of breeding hate groups of various types. Many of them are religious in nature. The KKK is religious based. The Aryan Nation is a quasi religious/race based organization. A sampling of other hate groups include the Army of God, the Christian Identity Movement, the National Socialist Movement, the League of the South, the League of Conservative Citizens, the New Black Panther Party, the National Policy...

I merely pointed out, right from the beginning, that this attack could have been perpetrated by an Islamic group

It could have. I've never disputed this outright. I think it much more likely that it was a fanatical Christian since this is right up their alley. The US has a history of breeding hate groups of various types. Many of them are religious in nature. The KKK is religious based. The Aryan Nation is a quasi religious/race based organization. A sampling of other hate groups include the Army of God, the Christian Identity Movement, the National Socialist Movement, the League of the South, the League of Conservative Citizens, the New Black Panther Party, the National Policy Institute, the White Revolution, American Vision, and Convenant People's Ministry. These are just some of the hate groups that operate in my state. That's just in my state. There are 40 recognized hate groups in my state. These groups are pretty much equally divided between White Nationalists, Christian Identity, Neo-Confederates, and Black Separatists. So your accusations concerning my naivete are baseless. I live here. Therefore I believe I'm better informed to make judgments of who might be or might not be involved in making these types of threats.

Ohio, where the billboard is located, hosts 23 recognized hate groups, the majority of them being affiliated with the Ku Klux Klan. You might have heard of this racial group that expresses its bigotry by burning crosses. Of the 23 groups in Ohio, the Nation of Islam is the only hate group associated with Islam. Could it have been them that made the threats? It's possible I suppose. But the odds don't factor in their favor.

So your accusations concerning my naivete are baseless

I highlighted the absurdity of your using 9/11 as evidence of your 'being totally aware of Islamic Terrorism'.
There were no "accusationS", good grief.
There is a hell of a lot more going on in the world of Islamic terror since 9/11, and going on NOW, as we have already shown here, repeatedly.

And Yes, it could be a Christian, it could be a Muslim, it could even be an Atheist who wanted to generate a little publicity for the billboards, lol....who the heck knows?
I still don't think your ''odds' are really that sound unless we had an update as to how active all these groups you mention actually are currently. My point ...

So your accusations concerning my naivete are baseless

I highlighted the absurdity of your using 9/11 as evidence of your 'being totally aware of Islamic Terrorism'.
There were no "accusationS", good grief.
There is a hell of a lot more going on in the world of Islamic terror since 9/11, and going on NOW, as we have already shown here, repeatedly.

And Yes, it could be a Christian, it could be a Muslim, it could even be an Atheist who wanted to generate a little publicity for the billboards, lol....who the heck knows?
I still don't think your ''odds' are really that sound unless we had an update as to how active all these groups you mention actually are currently. My point (again) has been to show that this silencing activity is very much in use now, as and such, would make me look closer at this event as it falls in line with the events/trends I am seeing in other locales. An attempt at pattern recognition I guess?

Anyways, I hope you will update this thread should you find anything else out and further, I hope that they do indeed find out who is terrifying the landowner. I can't imagine how frightening a threat like this must be, especially if you really don't know who made it!