Respect your parents or die (Exodus 21:17)

Since you are so knowledgeable of "biblical literalism" perhaps you would care to take a stab at a full exegesis of the theological implications of this particular verse.

6-2-2008 5:21 AM

He is simply pointing out the literal implications of that particular verse. What is your theological impression of it Willhelm?

6-2-2008 11:46 AM

alanocu said:

( OMG those religious people are nuts ).

That's not the point. The issue, which I had hoped to make clear with my reference to biblical literalism, is this:

OMG those religious people who point to the Bible to defend political stands (namely, opposition to gay equality) are inconsistent and hypocritical.

6-2-2008 12:02 PM

OMG those religious people who point to the Bible to defend
political stands (namely, opposition to gay equality) are inconsistent
and hypocritical.

Who is opposed to gay equality? It sseems by your clip and your last comment that this was really about your bigotry.

6-2-2008 3:12 PM

OK, now I see, this is about more of your usual division. Creating victims, pitting groups against one another, and placing equality over Liberty in the sense that you want to choose how people are equal and even define equality.

It's kind of like saying we wouldn't have anti-semitism if it weren't for all the Jews. That's very enlightened of you JK.

6-2-2008 4:06 PM

placing equality over Liberty in the sense that you want to choose how people are equal and even define equality.

The way I see it, proponents of gay marriage are basing their stand on both equality and liberty. There is no contradiction between equality and liberty when it comes to favoring gay rights.

People who think the state should recognize straight marriages but not gay marriages are opposing both equality and liberty, which is why that position is utterly alien to me.

6-2-2008 4:14 PM

There is no such thing as a straight marriage. And how can gays and straights be equal when there are two types of marriage, as you say. That is not equality - That is a "white water fountain" and a "colored water fountain"
There is only marriage. There are no laws restricting gays to get married any more than there are laws to prevent straights from engaging in a homosexual relationship.

6-2-2008 4:17 PM

Now recognition by the state of a particular union is another matter and a valid one. But, your issue is not about fairness, equality, or liberty. It is about forcing your views on society as whole and replacing the definitive and traditional concepts of marriage with your materialist religion.

6-2-2008 4:35 PM

@Alanocu:
In Mass we have a habit of saying "This is the Word Of The Lord" after a scripture reading, and then we kinda do a neat little thing where we make the sign of the cross with our thumbs on the forehead, lips, and heart. (I luv rituals, they can sometimes be so soothing). But I also say to myself "Or some words of wisdom from ancient Israel".
The point is that there is value and truth in conventional wisdom. It is nice to keep in mind that all cultures need ways of behavior that people can count on in each other, ranging from not stealing and not killing, and not testifying falsely to stopping at stop signs. In fact, we can not live together in groups without a consensus about ac...

6-2-2008 4:40 PM

In response to the 8th and 9th comments by Willhelm:

Comment #8 hinges on trivial semantic parsings and does nothing to directly confront the issue at hand.

Comment #9 is irrelevant because I have no more "forced [my] views on society" than anyone else on Clipmarks. If you are referring to the democratic implications of courts mandating gay marriage just come out and say so.

6-2-2008 5:00 PM

You brought it up, JK. I was only responding and "referring" to your clip and your admitted reasons for clipping it. Why does each comment contain a further component of deepening division?

You basically admitted, though I know you would not put it that way, that you clipped an Old Testament verse to "make a point" about "gay equality". I see that as blatantly bigoted.

Regarding your contention of "semantic parsings". Do you feel restricted by actual meanings of words and concepts? And if it is trivial, then why do say your clip is built upon the issue of "marriage"?

So, I don't see an issue here. You make bigoted assumptions, use a verse from the Bible regarding a theology you apparently...

6-2-2008 5:02 PM

Nice comment debbyski...that is a very reasonable approach to scripture.

6-2-2008 5:12 PM

I see that as blatantly bigoted.

Of course you do. For everything I write that you disagree with, your reply is that it is bigoted.

Do you feel restricted by actual meanings of words and concepts?

Of course, but I know that the actual meanings of words and concepts change. Insisting that marriage be always limited to just male-female couplings because that's the way marriage is defined in the dictionary just begs the question. What is the problem with expanding the definition to a same-sex couple?

6-2-2008 5:23 PM

Just because I point out your bigotry doesn't mean I think you're an idiot, despite the fact that you have to lie so blatantly to feel you have made a point.

What is the problem with expanding the definition to a same-sex couple?

Well, that depends on your definition. So we should start there. Could you define marriage? Could you define it in a way that you would like to see it defined?

The reason we have to start with your definition is because my definition is already made invalid by your very assumption.

6-2-2008 5:33 PM

the fact that you have to lie so blatantly

When I accuse someone of lying I (a) reference the statement they made; (b) point out the untruthful nature of the statement; and (c) make a case that the telling the untruth served the person's interests.

Feel free to do any or all of the above.

Could you define marriage?

The issue has nothing to do with definitions. It has everything to deal with people's contrary ideals about what families should be and their role in society, as well as assumptions about the meaningfulness of love and affection between two people of the same sex.

6-2-2008 5:41 PM

JK:

For everything I write that you disagree with, your reply is that it is bigoted.

Me:

Besides the fact that you have to lie so blatantly

JK:

When I accuse someone of lying I (a) reference the statement they made;
(b) point out the untruthful nature of the statement; and (c) make a
case that the telling the untruth served the person's interests.

Feel free to do any or all of the above.

Me:
Is that better?

In the case of you, JK, the lies are a given. Forgive my oversight.

6-2-2008 5:50 PM

The issue has nothing to do with definitions. It has everything to deal
with people's contrary ideals about what families should be and their
role in society, as well as assumptions about the meaningfulness of
love and affection between two people of the same sex.

Those are issues that need to be addressed, but they don't have anything to do with marriage. And, since it is not about definitions, then why bring up "marriage" ?

If there are contrary ideals, which you seem intent on creating, then what are they?

I know gays that aren't interested in instituting "gay marriage" or forcing their ideals about marriage on those with traditional views on marriage.

Besides, this is...

6-2-2008 6:04 PM

@jk
Thank you.

6-2-2008 6:07 PM

@Willhelm:
I'm still waiting to hear your theological impression of this quote from Scripture.

6-2-2008 8:30 PM

Willhelm:

I can only assume JK has some company in his animosity toward Jews.

GOOD GRIEF! Your bigotry is astounding!

I am not surprised by this at all. In fact I think if you are surprised it is based on some inherent bigotry.

You Christian bash.

[url=http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/67B6FD41-DD0D-471C-8370-360D93A50502/]This is not so thinnly veiled hate!...I thought the...

6-2-2008 8:43 PM

Oh, JK, that is quite miserable. Can you do better? We've been at this for years now. I've made 6600 comments. You found 2 examples where I called you out on displays of your bigotry? Considering that you ARE a bigot, don't you think you could come up with more examples where I jumped at the opportunity to state the obvious..

You did after all say "everything you write". Did you mis-speak or was it another one of your typical lies.

6-2-2008 8:44 PM

There are lots of bigots. Keep looking.

6-2-2008 8:47 PM