I agree with n2sooners on this one. The language is English and if someone wants special considerations then they need to bring their own translator.

rat, those are THEMED restaurants. If one has so much depth to speak only that specific language then they are going to have only the most dedicated American customers. Most are going to go to places that offer the same thing but speak in English. But most of those cultural restaurants do that only to add diversity to the choice of food. "Here, have Japanese/Thailand/German/Greek/etc food right here in America! Foreign food with American comfort!". Customers are not going there to hear the language but to enjoy the food.

If a business chooses...

I agree with n2sooners on this one. The language is English and if someone wants special considerations then they need to bring their own translator.

rat, those are THEMED restaurants. If one has so much depth to speak only that specific language then they are going to have only the most dedicated American customers. Most are going to go to places that offer the same thing but speak in English. But most of those cultural restaurants do that only to add diversity to the choice of food. "Here, have Japanese/Thailand/German/Greek/etc food right here in America! Foreign food with American comfort!". Customers are not going there to hear the language but to enjoy the food.

If a business chooses to go only with "(insert foreign language) spoken only here" then that is their choice. But then their profit margin will tell them if that was the right choice or not. I think it more likely you are just limiting your customer base.

For someone that comes to our country and then demands that their language is represented on menus, instructions, and signs is ridiculous. Learn the language. Should we let Europeans drive on the left side of the road simply because that's how they read traffic?

As the saying goes, when in Rome do as the Romans. Of course there is no reason to be polite and offer translation help to increase customer satisfaction, but that should not be a requirement.

Rather than make laws one way or the other, let the market work it out. If you make more money serving in dual languages or more money serving Americans only then the owner of the business can make the call as to which to pursue.

Wow. Simply because Rush or Anne Coulter or anyone else that a person might consider distasteful happens to agree on something with you doesn't automatically mean that what you accept is wrong. Even a broken watch is right 2 times a day. Should I dislike a nice hot shower because Limbagh does? Should I refuse to donate to the same charities that Coulter does?

@ RecordSage
If I truly had a desire to understand what you had typed then either I'd ask someone to translate or learn the language. And if what you had to say was extremely important that you felt you had to convey what you said to me (or anyone else) then you'd find someone to translate, or since being in America you'd learn the la...

Wow. Simply because Rush or Anne Coulter or anyone else that a person might consider distasteful happens to agree on something with you doesn't automatically mean that what you accept is wrong. Even a broken watch is right 2 times a day. Should I dislike a nice hot shower because Limbagh does? Should I refuse to donate to the same charities that Coulter does?

@ RecordSage
If I truly had a desire to understand what you had typed then either I'd ask someone to translate or learn the language. And if what you had to say was extremely important that you felt you had to convey what you said to me (or anyone else) then you'd find someone to translate, or since being in America you'd learn the language. I think it quite arrogant to assume that a foreign people should adopt your culture when you are visiting them or seeking to join them.

@n2sooners
Great point. Seems to me that if you choose to reside in America, or Germany or Japan or Hungary then it is your own responsibility to learn the language and integrate. Seems many people are taking a very hypocritical attitude of "pander to me".

And finally, what an entirely ridiculous notion that refusing to force people to prepare a literal Rosetta stone of language translation in their establishment as xenophobic. As I pointed out earlier, it would be in your own best interest to provide translations if a significant portion of your customers are foreign, but that should be a choice reserved for the owners/managers of those places. If you don't like it then do your business elsewhere.

I'm actually surprised someone hasn't quite made the handicap parallel here as well. We force businesses to conform to handicap accessibility and I believe that is ridiculous as well. And before someone tries to tell me I lack perspective, please don't. I've been pushing around family members in wheel chairs for years. Again, this should be a choice of who a business wants to pander to, not forced law.

Socratoad said:

I've been in some pretty wild and woolly p-arts of this tired old planet and have NEVER been refused service because I did not speak the local language

Is that because they are forced to serve you by law or it was in their best interest to try and understand you to get your money? The power of profit is strong.

Frankly, I think you are making more of this than what it is - its not about refusing service, its about running a business. If the patrons demanded Saki should the owner be forced to provide it because that is their cultural preference? Should there be a side menu for Thai food? Or even a children's menu?

These are choices that a business can make to capi...

Socratoad said:

I've been in some pretty wild and woolly p-arts of this tired old planet and have NEVER been refused service because I did not speak the local language

Is that because they are forced to serve you by law or it was in their best interest to try and understand you to get your money? The power of profit is strong.

Frankly, I think you are making more of this than what it is - its not about refusing service, its about running a business. If the patrons demanded Saki should the owner be forced to provide it because that is their cultural preference? Should there be a side menu for Thai food? Or even a children's menu?

These are choices that a business can make to capitalize on a customer niche, but only if they are interested in doing it, not because there is any obligation. If the customers don't like the service or what the place offers then they move on to somewhere else.

Where does it end? If you force translations for one language by law then you must force it for all of them. This is just playing into building up more bureaucratic nonsense and red tape. Laws for the sake of passing laws. Like this country needs more ridiculous like this.

Oklahoma is a joke. What a disgrace that someone like n2 can get all bent out of shape about language in a state where they stole Indian land. What is a sooner? Look at the definition it's a cheater. Someone who violated law to steal land from Indians sooner than everyone else.

The jerk in this article is in violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Law. Period.

The dufuss in this article sells one thing, Cheesesteaks, and he can't figure out what someone is ordering? Pathetic. I guess we should have kicked his parents immigrant butts out way long ago.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub.L. 88-352, 78 Stat. 241, July 2, 1964) was a landmark legislation in the United States that outlawed di...

Oklahoma is a joke. What a disgrace that someone like n2 can get all bent out of shape about language in a state where they stole Indian land. What is a sooner? Look at the definition it's a cheater. Someone who violated law to steal land from Indians sooner than everyone else.

The jerk in this article is in violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Law. Period.

The dufuss in this article sells one thing, Cheesesteaks, and he can't figure out what someone is ordering? Pathetic. I guess we should have kicked his parents immigrant butts out way long ago.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub.L. 88-352, 78 Stat. 241, July 2, 1964) was a landmark legislation in the United States that outlawed discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin: in voting, employment, and public services, such as transportation. Originally conceived to protect the rights of African Americans, the bill was amended prior to passage to protect the civil rights of everyone, and explicitly included women for the first time. It also started the Equal Employment Opportunity group.

So Are “We Reserve the Right to Refuse Service to Anyone” Signs in Restaurants Legal?

Yes, however they still do not give a restaurant the power to refuse service on the basis of race, color, religion, or natural origin. These signs also do not preclude a court from finding other arbitrary refusals of service to be discriminatory. Simply put, restaurants that carry a “Right to Refuse Service” sign are subject to the same laws as restaurants without one.

But at Pat's, the rival steak stall just across the road, manager Tom Francona has a different philosophy.

"We serve everyone here," he said. "It doesn't matter if you speak English or any language. If you need help getting through a cheese steak order, we'll help you.

"This is a multicultural neighbourhood now. We have a range of different people now. We have to teach them. We can teach them to say cheese steak."

To hell with Geno's (My remark). It's too much trouble to assist someone with the one choice that has to be made at his restaurant? Do you want Cheese Whiz, Provolone or American? Absolutely pathetic. This boils down to...

But at Pat's, the rival steak stall just across the road, manager Tom Francona has a different philosophy.

"We serve everyone here," he said. "It doesn't matter if you speak English or any language. If you need help getting through a cheese steak order, we'll help you.

"This is a multicultural neighbourhood now. We have a range of different people now. We have to teach them. We can teach them to say cheese steak."

To hell with Geno's (My remark). It's too much trouble to assist someone with the one choice that has to be made at his restaurant? Do you want Cheese Whiz, Provolone or American? Absolutely pathetic. This boils down to xenophobia.

From an article: This part of town may be called Italian Market, but these days it is filled with Korean and Mexican stores - such as El Pueblo, just a couple of blocks from Geno's.

Shopkeeper Flora is not impressed by the sign at Geno's.

"I think it's ignorant," she said. "They came from immigrants.

The Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations (PCHR) was established in 1952. The Commission is mandated by the Home Rule Charter to enforce the Philadelphia Fair Practices Ordinance. The Ordinance prohibits discrimination in the areas of employment, housing, public accommodations, and the provision of City services. It is unlawful to discriminate in these areas because of race, color, gender, religion, age (excluding public accommodations) sexual orientation, national origin, ancestry, and disability. In housing, it is also unlawful to discriminate because of marital status, the source of income, and the presence of children. In addition, the Commission reduces and prevents intergroup ten...

The Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations (PCHR) was established in 1952. The Commission is mandated by the Home Rule Charter to enforce the Philadelphia Fair Practices Ordinance. The Ordinance prohibits discrimination in the areas of employment, housing, public accommodations, and the provision of City services. It is unlawful to discriminate in these areas because of race, color, gender, religion, age (excluding public accommodations) sexual orientation, national origin, ancestry, and disability. In housing, it is also unlawful to discriminate because of marital status, the source of income, and the presence of children. In addition, the Commission reduces and prevents intergroup tension in Philadelphia, provides education on intergroup harmony and cultural diversity, and mediates disputes through its Disputes resolution program. The Commission has nine Commissioners appointed by the Mayor.

The Rev. James Allen, the chairperson of Commision on Human Relations, was the first witness to testify late this afternoon, followed by University of Pennsylvania professor Camille Charles.

Charles, a professor of sociology, said the number of foreign-born residents living in the South Philadelphia neighborhood near Geno's grew more than 200 percent between 1980 and 2000.

When shown historical signs from the Jim Crow era in the South that read "Whites Only," Charles said Vento's "Speak English" sign had the same impact on patrons.

The Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations decided to charge that Vento discriminated against non-English speakers.

The commission alleges that Vento's s...

The Rev. James Allen, the chairperson of Commision on Human Relations, was the first witness to testify late this afternoon, followed by University of Pennsylvania professor Camille Charles.

Charles, a professor of sociology, said the number of foreign-born residents living in the South Philadelphia neighborhood near Geno's grew more than 200 percent between 1980 and 2000.

When shown historical signs from the Jim Crow era in the South that read "Whites Only," Charles said Vento's "Speak English" sign had the same impact on patrons.

The Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations decided to charge that Vento discriminated against non-English speakers.

The commission alleges that Vento's sign violates the section of the city's Fair Practices Ordinance that prohibits the owner of a public accommodation from putting up a sign aimed at "any specific group" to make its members feel discriminated against or unwelcome.

BobbyRutan said:

What a disgrace that someone like n2 can get all bent out of shape about language in a state where they stole Indian land.

LOL. Like whatever place your ancestors came from wasn't ultimately stolen from someone else.

The jerk in this article is in violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Law. Period.

Oh, he is not. You are trying so hard to make something out of this when there is nothing to be made. If he were violating someone's rights under the Civil Rights Law then he'd be refusing service to all Italians, Jews, Germans, Blacks, Women, Men, or whatever group you want. Instead he is refusing service to those that he cannot understand, just as if someo...

BobbyRutan said:

What a disgrace that someone like n2 can get all bent out of shape about language in a state where they stole Indian land.

LOL. Like whatever place your ancestors came from wasn't ultimately stolen from someone else.

The jerk in this article is in violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Law. Period.

Oh, he is not. You are trying so hard to make something out of this when there is nothing to be made. If he were violating someone's rights under the Civil Rights Law then he'd be refusing service to all Italians, Jews, Germans, Blacks, Women, Men, or whatever group you want. Instead he is refusing service to those that he cannot understand, just as if someone with a bad phone connection called in an order and could not be understood because of static on the line. Should THEY be arrested too? Give me a break.

Get down off your cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it. The only one that appears to be bent out of shape over this is you, Bobby.

I know exactly what civil rights are. The problem is that you don't recognize when it is relevant or not. This is not a civil rights issue. Sadly, this doesn't make you ignorant, which can be cured with knowledge, it just makes you incorrect.

I would suggest Geno's accepts the fact that there are other people on this planet than just English speakers

Your complete gross exaggeration of the situation is actually pretty comical. Add to the fact that you cannot make a post without adding base insults effectively demonstrates your level of intellect. This alone demonstrates your inability to grasp the situation.

In case you missed it, this is NOT a civil rights issue but a sim...

I know exactly what civil rights are. The problem is that you don't recognize when it is relevant or not. This is not a civil rights issue. Sadly, this doesn't make you ignorant, which can be cured with knowledge, it just makes you incorrect.

I would suggest Geno's accepts the fact that there are other people on this planet than just English speakers

Your complete gross exaggeration of the situation is actually pretty comical. Add to the fact that you cannot make a post without adding base insults effectively demonstrates your level of intellect. This alone demonstrates your inability to grasp the situation.

In case you missed it, this is NOT a civil rights issue but a simple business decision. Profitable or not, the choice is up to the owner. No law has been broken.

While I might be wrong that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 has been broken it would only be because of a skirting of wording of the act and not the intent of the legislation.

As far as the Philadelphia Fair Practices Ordinance there has already been a finding of probable cause that Geno's owner Vento is in violation. The Philadelphia Fair Practices Ordinance prohibits discrimination in Public Accomodation. According to the Cornel Law School website, Public Accomidation includes restaurants.

The complaint was brief - stating that the English-only rule had the effect of "discouraging patronage by non-English-speaking customers, all because of national origin and/or ancestry." Philadelphia wil...

While I might be wrong that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 has been broken it would only be because of a skirting of wording of the act and not the intent of the legislation.

As far as the Philadelphia Fair Practices Ordinance there has already been a finding of probable cause that Geno's owner Vento is in violation. The Philadelphia Fair Practices Ordinance prohibits discrimination in Public Accomodation. According to the Cornel Law School website, Public Accomidation includes restaurants.

The complaint was brief - stating that the English-only rule had the effect of "discouraging patronage by non-English-speaking customers, all because of national origin and/or ancestry." Philadelphia will sort that out as to whether the law has been broken.

According to an article in the Philadelphia Daily News, Vento has commented that his sign is targeted towards Mexican Immigrants in the surrounding community (which would be a violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964). "This was a predominantly Italian neighborhood, and for some reason it's turning Mexican," public policy consultant Deborah Leavy quoted Vento as saying in a recent Daily News column.

The xenophobia that propels the English-Only movement goes against the history of our nation and is despicable not comical. I'm confident of my understanding.

Some would say, a cheesesteak is not a constitutionally protected right, therefore, being denied one really does not mean anything. But, in reality, it is so much more important than that. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (the "CRA") makes it so. According to the CRA, "[a]ll persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin." 42 U.S.C.S. Sec. 2000a(a). It could be credibly argued that language is an indicia of national origin. Some people only speak Spanish, Cambodian or Chinese. To deny...

Some would say, a cheesesteak is not a constitutionally protected right, therefore, being denied one really does not mean anything. But, in reality, it is so much more important than that. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (the "CRA") makes it so. According to the CRA, "[a]ll persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin." 42 U.S.C.S. Sec. 2000a(a). It could be credibly argued that language is an indicia of national origin. Some people only speak Spanish, Cambodian or Chinese. To deny them the ability to order food based on their language necessarily relates to their national origin. In my mind, this is paramount to discrimination. Also, the racial classification of "Latino" could be implicated in terms of this language dispute.

The CRA requires that a place have an effect on interstate commerce and includes "any restaurant, cafeteria, lunchroom, lunch counter, soda fountain, or other facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises . . ." 42 U.S.C.S. Sec. 2000a(b)(2). In this instance, the interstate commerce requirement is met because Geno's undoubtedly "serves or offers to serve interstate travelers . . ." 42 U.S.C.S. Sec. 2000a(c).

The xenophobia that propels the English-Only movement goes against the history of our nation and is despicable not comical. I'm confident of my understanding.

I'm sure you are, but you're still wrong. Here is a definition of xenophobia :

• Xenophobia –noun
  an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.
  

Since the man is quite happy to serve anyone who speaks understandable English then it is not a case of xenophobia. Even if he refused to serve Mexicans or Germans or Jews or any other specific race it would not be xenophobia. Once again, you are over exaggerating usage.

At best you could ca...

The xenophobia that propels the English-Only movement goes against the history of our nation and is despicable not comical. I'm confident of my understanding.

I'm sure you are, but you're still wrong. Here is a definition of xenophobia :

• Xenophobia –noun
  an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.
  

Since the man is quite happy to serve anyone who speaks understandable English then it is not a case of xenophobia. Even if he refused to serve Mexicans or Germans or Jews or any other specific race it would not be xenophobia. Once again, you are over exaggerating usage.

At best you could call him bigoted or prejudiced, but even then it could not be named towards a specific race, religion, sex, or color. The accusations that you are presenting are completely exaggerated and require a personal interpretation of law simply to apply them.

It is ironic that you demand this man go to the effort of providing translation to those that cannot speak enough English to order, yet you won't demand those that are going to utilize American services don't make the effort to integrate. Sounds like a double standard.

This all reminds me of people who complain about what shows are on television. The best advice? Turn the damn channel. The same advice applies - you don't like it, eat somewhere else.

As you said, the courts will decide upon any civil violation. While you see it as a plain violation I do not. I guess there is no point in discussing that aspect of it unless there are further points to be made. We both obviously have differing interpretation of what constitutes civil law.

Getting back to the restaurant topic. Aside all of the philosophical garbage above - if you go to a restaurant and you can't understand what the staff says or have some questions - forget it. Just point with your fingers and hope that it'll be what you think it is.

I actually had a little article written here on this very topic, based on a recent experience with this very issue.

If you don't speak the language - it's tough to get anything done. Speaking all of the languages is impossible, which means someone somewhere will be left out, pissed off etc. Solution is simple - a single language. ...

Getting back to the restaurant topic. Aside all of the philosophical garbage above - if you go to a restaurant and you can't understand what the staff says or have some questions - forget it. Just point with your fingers and hope that it'll be what you think it is.

I actually had a little article written here on this very topic, based on a recent experience with this very issue.

If you don't speak the language - it's tough to get anything done. Speaking all of the languages is impossible, which means someone somewhere will be left out, pissed off etc. Solution is simple - a single language. English was it for this one, no reason to change it. I came here, didn't speak a word, but obviously wanted to be able to order at restaurants so... few tough years, school - everyone can survive.

You're right - I didn't, but my parents sure the heck did.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'not unreasonable to ask'? To me it should say - it would be nice to have it widely available to learn, for those who care, but it should NOT be 'asked'.

The only thing that should be asked is that English is the language of the land, so everyone living here should be able to speak it, write it and read it, if they want to do well and function normally as Americans. That does make sense. Printing everything in 1 language and not paying for dozen more would save a lot of money. Providing translators for medical needs should be done by family members/friends, not taxpayer dollars. In other words, ju...

You're right - I didn't, but my parents sure the heck did.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'not unreasonable to ask'? To me it should say - it would be nice to have it widely available to learn, for those who care, but it should NOT be 'asked'.

The only thing that should be asked is that English is the language of the land, so everyone living here should be able to speak it, write it and read it, if they want to do well and function normally as Americans. That does make sense. Printing everything in 1 language and not paying for dozen more would save a lot of money. Providing translators for medical needs should be done by family members/friends, not taxpayer dollars. In other words, just as it was when we came. My parents didn't speak any English, neither did I nor my 4-yr old sister. There were volunteers that took us to grocery stores and helped us with the language etc. Yes, it wasn't pretty at first, but America didn't ask us to come! America was gracious enough to let us come, therefore the burden was (as it should've been) on us to become Americans, which meant learning English, finding work (which my father did in 3 months) and I did after 4 etc. And my parents did 3 jobs shortly afterwards, 2 during the week and 1 on the weekends. I helped out, worked in a restaurant, as a janitor... nothing to be proud of, but certainly nothing I'm ashamed of either. That's what it takes. And my take is - if my family could do it - anyone could, from any country.

As for your economic argument - I still disagree... I think my Russian is more applicable here than Spanish would be. In terms of economic ties and resources - Russia kills Mexico, Spain, Portugal & any other Spanish-speaking countries combined. So what? How about China? Certainly a lot more possibilities there, already in place actually... so what? Does that mean that everything should now be in English & Chinese? Of course not.

Well several points here. I don't discount RecordSage's experience. It is a compelling story. However his story is not the entire picture but merely a piece of data in the whole data set. I'm sure that some Russian immigrated to America and either did not learn English or did not learn it well. Might be a small percentage but I am sure those persons exist. I am also willing to bet that you didn't drop all vestiges of your Russian heritage.

Here's another story. My father (at age 54) and my mother (at age 47) began studying both French and Spanish of their own accord (no job requirement) while still raising high school kids and working full time. My father became proficient enough that he co...

Well several points here. I don't discount RecordSage's experience. It is a compelling story. However his story is not the entire picture but merely a piece of data in the whole data set. I'm sure that some Russian immigrated to America and either did not learn English or did not learn it well. Might be a small percentage but I am sure those persons exist. I am also willing to bet that you didn't drop all vestiges of your Russian heritage.

Here's another story. My father (at age 54) and my mother (at age 47) began studying both French and Spanish of their own accord (no job requirement) while still raising high school kids and working full time. My father became proficient enough that he could recruit for his institution in countries Venezuela and Columbia without being accompanied by a translator. If they can do it, at that age and with job and life demands other Americans can do it. I myself have studied two foreign languages while supporting myself and putting myself through college. However, now I live in whitebread America and am out of practice but could pick it up fairly quickly.

I have worked and was a supervisor in restaurants and hotels working with many recent Latin American immigrants. They were hard working just like RecordSage and his parents. In all that time I can honestly say that I met only 1 person who was not trying to improve his/her English. His name was Lupe (short for Guadalupe).

Another point. School districts can't demand that you learn a foreign language but they can demand that you take foreign language classes. You can sit in your chair and remain ignorant if you so chose.

Massachusetts requires all high school students to take 2 years of foreign languages in high school since all state colleges and universities require it for entrance. There is a school district in Minnesota that is requiring enrollees to take 5 years of foreign languages in grades 6th through 10th.

There are a couple of websites that I recommend for reading regarding commonly held myths about multilingual and multicultural societies.

Myths about Multilingual Societies
Common Myths about Bilingualism

Regarding RecordSage's comments about Russia's economy and economic ties with the U.S.A. dwarving those of all Spanish Speaking and Portuguese Speaking countries (since you tossed in Portugal) combined, nothing could be further from the truth. I don't know where you get your statistics but I will list where I get mine.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_...

There are a couple of websites that I recommend for reading regarding commonly held myths about multilingual and multicultural societies.

Myths about Multilingual Societies
Common Myths about Bilingualism

Regarding RecordSage's comments about Russia's economy and economic ties with the U.S.A. dwarving those of all Spanish Speaking and Portuguese Speaking countries (since you tossed in Portugal) combined, nothing could be further from the truth. I don't know where you get your statistics but I will list where I get mine.

List of countries by GDP (as of 2006)
TradeStats Express

Both Spain and Brazil have larger GDP's than Russia. Mexico is only a little ways behind. So if you combing those and Portugal and the remainder of South and Central America they easily dwarf Russia's GDP.

As far as trade. Mexico is our third largest trade partner for imports into the U.S. and the second largest trade partner for exports from the U.S. to another country. In fact we export more to Argentina than we do to Russia. Russia is way down on the list.

We don't have to have every person learning Spanish. It would be better that some learn Spanish, some French, some Mandarin Chinese, some Russian. I also have a clip about Panama making teaching Chinese mandatory in their school systems. Their children will know Spanish, Chinese, and English when finished with school.

Finally, in response to Oortcloud, my life and my family's life has been blessed to be influenced by so many individuals whose lives began in different countries. RecordSages story is not the first I have ever heard.

So lets get back to basics here, Bobby. Is your argument that all establishments should be forced to learn differing languages and dialects and be forced to provide menus with a plethora of varying languages as well as have someone on hand who can understand each?

Or do you simply dislike the idea of a man exercising his right to run his own business the way he wants because it conflicts with what your term as "fair"?

Regardless of what you think, this is not a civil rights matter. Even the references that you've provided prove that because he does not discriminate by race, age, sex, gender or ethnicity. The only people he refuses to serve are those that he cant understand. Period. You may...

So lets get back to basics here, Bobby. Is your argument that all establishments should be forced to learn differing languages and dialects and be forced to provide menus with a plethora of varying languages as well as have someone on hand who can understand each?

Or do you simply dislike the idea of a man exercising his right to run his own business the way he wants because it conflicts with what your term as "fair"?

Regardless of what you think, this is not a civil rights matter. Even the references that you've provided prove that because he does not discriminate by race, age, sex, gender or ethnicity. The only people he refuses to serve are those that he cant understand. Period. You may as well be arguing that a business that refuses service to a person that enters with no shoes or shirt is illegal, or that people who enter a restaurant and are turned away because there is no seating is illegal.

Call him arrogant, call him lazy, call him uneducated. Doesn't matter. He's still not breaking any laws.

As to whether he is breaking any laws I will leave that up to Philadelphia to decide. Some legal analysts are of the opinion that he is breaking both the Philadelphia Ordinance and the Civil Rights Act (regardless of your opinion).

Your constant mentioning of the need to hire a translator is ridiculous. I believe there are only a total of what, 12 options in ordering. With/without onioin, dipped/not dipped in juice, cheese whiz/American/Provolone or maybe it's Swiss. In Japan they have intricate menus that people can point and order from. It would be incredibly easy for Vento to provide a visual menu at next to nothing cost.

Vento has previously commented and been quoted that his sign is ...

As to whether he is breaking any laws I will leave that up to Philadelphia to decide. Some legal analysts are of the opinion that he is breaking both the Philadelphia Ordinance and the Civil Rights Act (regardless of your opinion).

Your constant mentioning of the need to hire a translator is ridiculous. I believe there are only a total of what, 12 options in ordering. With/without onioin, dipped/not dipped in juice, cheese whiz/American/Provolone or maybe it's Swiss. In Japan they have intricate menus that people can point and order from. It would be incredibly easy for Vento to provide a visual menu at next to nothing cost.

Vento has previously commented and been quoted that his sign is directed to Mexicans and Mexican-Americans. Spare me the "anyone who can't speak English" line.

Societies have the right to regulate business practices. No one gets to operate businesses as they "see fit". Thank goodness.

As to whether he is breaking any laws I will leave that up to Philadelphia to decide

If you truly meant that sincerely then you wouldn't have posted anything more after your first opinion.

Some legal analysts are of the opinion that he is breaking both the Philadelphia Ordinance and the Civil Rights Act

And more than some are of the opinion that he is not.

I believe there are only a total of what, 12 options in ordering.

There are 6,800 known languages across the world. By forcing the translation of one you open the door to demand the translation for all. I'm amazed that you, who keeps crying...

As to whether he is breaking any laws I will leave that up to Philadelphia to decide

If you truly meant that sincerely then you wouldn't have posted anything more after your first opinion.

Some legal analysts are of the opinion that he is breaking both the Philadelphia Ordinance and the Civil Rights Act

And more than some are of the opinion that he is not.

I believe there are only a total of what, 12 options in ordering.

There are 6,800 known languages across the world. By forcing the translation of one you open the door to demand the translation for all. I'm amazed that you, who keeps crying fairness, doesn't recognize this. At some point common sense (regardless of how uncommon it is) must come into play.

It would be incredibly easy for Vento to provide a visual menu at next to nothing cost

And even more efficient, the customer could actually learned a few English words and have the added benefit of better adaptation. Then no added cost need be levied upon entrepreneurs because someone is simply too lazy to learn how to say "I'll have a pepperoni pizza with extra cheese".

Vento has previously commented and been quoted that his sign is directed to Mexicans and Mexican-Americans

Please show me a link to the reference being made. I'm betting there is a little out of context referencing going on here, but please, show me if I'm wrong.

Societies have the right to regulate business practices

Regulate, not dominate and control and mandate policy and personal ownership decisions.

No one gets to operate businesses as they "see fit"

I bet you don't recognize how ridiculous that statement was do you?

1. My position is clear it didn't need to be restated. You have your opinion I have mine.

2. Some/more than some, nondescript terms that mean very little.

3. Pictures are almost universally understood by everyone.

4. Societies have the right to regulate businesses and will continue to do so.

5. No my last statement is not ridiculous, that is why Jim Crow laws and practices were outlawed. I can think of nothing more ridiculous than the idea that anyone can do anything they damn well please in running a company.

Additional information: Vento's grandparents were immigrants who came to America and never learned English. They were not kicked out of the country. [url=http://abcnews.go.com/GMA...

1. My position is clear it didn't need to be restated. You have your opinion I have mine.

2. Some/more than some, nondescript terms that mean very little.

3. Pictures are almost universally understood by everyone.

4. Societies have the right to regulate businesses and will continue to do so.

5. No my last statement is not ridiculous, that is why Jim Crow laws and practices were outlawed. I can think of nothing more ridiculous than the idea that anyone can do anything they damn well please in running a company.

Additional information: Vento's grandparents were immigrants who came to America and never learned English. They were not kicked out of the country. Link.

His grandparents arrived from Sicily without speaking a word of English. Vento said they paid the price, and it was not until the second generation, his parents, when to school and learned English, that the family truly realized the American Dream.

Back when this topic was fresh I also saw that even his parents did not speak English well as remembered by people who were familiar with them.

Link to the article where Vento quotes Theodore Roosevelt and then the article states that Vento was referring to the growing Mexican population (not the original article I saw but really what's the point. I know your position, you know mine)..

My position is clear it didn't need to be restated. You have your opinion I have mine.

See, the problem here is you think we are two people of differing opinion. That is not the case. I am not expressing an opinion. Vento has not broken any laws.

Some/more than some, nondescript terms that mean very little.

So it means something if you try to make a point but when I quantify/qualify the statement its suddenly pointless. We call that back-pedaling.

Pictures are almost universally understood by everyone.

Who needs pictures when both people speak the local language? Tell ya what, take 2 guys allergic to onions and give them each a menu. 1 guy can rea...

My position is clear it didn't need to be restated. You have your opinion I have mine.

See, the problem here is you think we are two people of differing opinion. That is not the case. I am not expressing an opinion. Vento has not broken any laws.

Some/more than some, nondescript terms that mean very little.

So it means something if you try to make a point but when I quantify/qualify the statement its suddenly pointless. We call that back-pedaling.

Pictures are almost universally understood by everyone.

Who needs pictures when both people speak the local language? Tell ya what, take 2 guys allergic to onions and give them each a menu. 1 guy can read the language and the other guy can only go by the pretty pictures - lets see who avoids the allergic reaction.

Societies have the right to regulate businesses and will continue to do so.

"I don't think that means what you want it to mean" - Inigo Montoya (Princess Bride)

I can think of nothing more ridiculous than the idea that anyone can do anything they damn well please in running a company.

Only because you are being purposefully obtuse with your statement.

The rest of your statements about his immigrant parents are also you simply being obtuse. You keep avoiding the main thrust of the point simply to continue banging away at your ill formed opinion. I don't care if his parents never spoke English or if they American born. It is not relevant to the point.

Honestly, I think this about you getting the last word. You keep trying to defend your opinion with points that have nothing to do with the issue and keep presenting an opinion as if its actually truth. You can think he's rude and he's wrong and its unfair, but that still doesn't make you right. Fact is you have a pretty bad misunderstanding of civic law and what bigotry is.

Ive done my best to point out your fallacies but I think I've had enough. Get your last word and we'll call it quits.

I was in Philly when this made the news back in the summer of 2006. I think this is getting a little over blown.
The owner's intent was to make a statement which he has the right to do. He says he has never turned anyone away because they couldn't speak English.
I was at Geno's behind some Japanese tourists who could not speak English very well, They pointed at the menu for what they wanted, but they couldn't understand the guy's questions about what cheese to put on their steak. Another customer helped them out (they got whiz).
A smart business man will not refuse money just because they can't speak the language.
Reminds me of Eddie Izzard talking about how the rest of Europe learns mult...

I was in Philly when this made the news back in the summer of 2006. I think this is getting a little over blown.
The owner's intent was to make a statement which he has the right to do. He says he has never turned anyone away because they couldn't speak English.
I was at Geno's behind some Japanese tourists who could not speak English very well, They pointed at the menu for what they wanted, but they couldn't understand the guy's questions about what cheese to put on their steak. Another customer helped them out (they got whiz).
A smart business man will not refuse money just because they can't speak the language.
Reminds me of Eddie Izzard talking about how the rest of Europe learns multiple languages, but the English don't. "No we don't want any of your Doytchie Markies" - hangs up - "We do?! Oh crap!"