"We need to know what your intentions are -- and we need to know NOW."
Since more Americans consider themselves to be "conservative" than any other major ideology...
(http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/Conservatives-Single-Largest-Ideological-Group.aspx)
... you're asking if 40% of America wants to start a civil war? Wow. Well, no, but since it makes you feel better to think that, I can't stop you.

A heroic museum guard and a physician were murdered --- tragic by any measure one could conceive. But this constitutes a pattern of conservative injustice??? Why didn't the murder of Jews in New York City during riots fanned by the Reverend Al constitute racial hatred? Or is it OK if Jew kill...

"We need to know what your intentions are -- and we need to know NOW."
Since more Americans consider themselves to be "conservative" than any other major ideology...
(http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/Conservatives-Single-Largest-Ideological-Group.aspx)
... you're asking if 40% of America wants to start a civil war? Wow. Well, no, but since it makes you feel better to think that, I can't stop you.

A heroic museum guard and a physician were murdered --- tragic by any measure one could conceive. But this constitutes a pattern of conservative injustice??? Why didn't the murder of Jews in New York City during riots fanned by the Reverend Al constitute racial hatred? Or is it OK if Jew killers are black? Ditto for the planned bombing of the NYC synagogue.

And von Brunn SAID that Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, all staunch Zionists (Limbaugh is personal friends with Bibi Netanyahu), convinced him to kill JEWS? And the guy who gunned down Tiller in cold blood at church said that he was inspired by talk radio to do this? Could you link me to that statement, please?

No, you can't, so please stop hallucinating. The constant harangue of Abu Ghraib pictures and accusations of torture also did not "cause" angry American Muslims to murder Army recruiters or target Synagogues. They were killers (or wannabes), and so, too, are murderers of abortion docs or museum guards. Pictures of mutilated fetuses or hooded prisoners caused neither. But I choose not to make wild accusations to tar my ideological opponents.

"Are you deliberately trying to start a civil war?"
No --- but, just for the sake of argument, suppose I ran for national political office and refused to separate myself from people who not only supported civil upheaval and revolution, but in fact planted bombs to help advance a cause they never disavowed, and they remained my friends. And what if I attended a church that advocated racial separation? Would you be suspicious of me?

You should be.

@typwhtprsn:

Why didn't the murder of Jews in New York City during riots fanned by the Reverend Al constitute racial hatred?

Actually, it did. I grew up in New York, and think Al Sharpton has an abominable past.

And the guy who gunned down Tiller in cold blood at church said that he was inspired by talk radio to do this? Could you link me to that statement, please?

Bill O'Riley referred to Dr. Tiller as "Tiller the Baby Killer" (or variants thereof) 29 times on his program, referring to "Judgement Day" and comparing him to the nazis.

[i]O'Reilly didn't tell anyone to do anything vi...

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@typwhtprsn:

Why didn't the murder of Jews in New York City during riots fanned by the Reverend Al constitute racial hatred?

Actually, it did. I grew up in New York, and think Al Sharpton has an abominable past.

And the guy who gunned down Tiller in cold blood at church said that he was inspired by talk radio to do this? Could you link me to that statement, please?

Bill O'Riley referred to Dr. Tiller as "Tiller the Baby Killer" (or variants thereof) 29 times on his program, referring to "Judgement Day" and comparing him to the nazis.

O'Reilly didn't tell anyone to do anything violent, but he did put Tiller in the public eye, and help make him the focus of a movement with a history of violence against exactly these kinds of targets (including Tiller himself, who had already been shot). In those circumstances, flinging around words like "blood on their hands," "pardon," "country club" and "judgment day" was sensationally irresponsible.

Videos of what O'Riley said are available at the link above.

But I choose not to make wild accusations to tar my ideological opponents.

Um, there was that DHS report about the threat of rightwing violence, the one that preceeded the, you know... rightwing violence we just witnessed. That's the source of the accusation. And not such a wild one, given it's seeming accuracy.

jmatts78, did you read the post, or are you just in such a rage that your eyesight got blurry?

One murder (Army recruiters) and one near-murder (bombing) are connected with "angry", misguided, and ultimately evil AMERICAN CITIZENS in OUR OWN BACK YARD --- people who were motivated by their twisted views of the world. Their ACTS were NOT motivated by antiwar and anti-Israel imagery and opinion constantly fed to them by the press -- like the two shooters you want to identify with me, these people are just criminals.

And, yes, you're right: racial crime stoked by public figures DOES go back before 9/11 -- the Howard Beach attacks on Jews were in '86, I believe? With no virtually outrage ...

jmatts78, did you read the post, or are you just in such a rage that your eyesight got blurry?

One murder (Army recruiters) and one near-murder (bombing) are connected with "angry", misguided, and ultimately evil AMERICAN CITIZENS in OUR OWN BACK YARD --- people who were motivated by their twisted views of the world. Their ACTS were NOT motivated by antiwar and anti-Israel imagery and opinion constantly fed to them by the press -- like the two shooters you want to identify with me, these people are just criminals.

And, yes, you're right: racial crime stoked by public figures DOES go back before 9/11 -- the Howard Beach attacks on Jews were in '86, I believe? With no virtually outrage expressed by "liberals", no calls for constant anti-Jewish remarks to stop. The "Reverend" Al "I hates me a Jew" Sharpton has a syndicated radio show.

And, I think it was as far ago as the late '60s when the Weather Underground bombed a Federal Judge's house, a police station, etc., all in the name of "revolution" -- some of them even know and influence important politicians. Personally. Today.

BUT, if I wanted to invent a boogeyman to demonize ALL the people who disagree with me politically (according to Gallup 21% of Americans who identify themselves as "Liberal"), I might come up with this kind of malevolent "do you want a civil war" crap. I'd start right off accusing my political opponents of fanning anti-Semitism, or hatred of the American military, and trying to foment national upheaval. Or of having those same intents today by glorifying past offenders. Of course, only twits and nutballs would make wild accusatory remarks like saying that ALL THE POEPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH ME are the cause of insane murders, so I wouldn't do that.

Neither should you.

Spritualmonkey:

"Bill O'Riley referred to Dr. Tiller as "Tiller the Baby Killer" (or variants thereof) 29 times on his program, referring to "Judgement Day" and comparing him to the nazis."

I didn't ask how many times somebody in "right wing media" said something you don't like.

How many times in Liberal blogs has the term BusHitler been used? Hint: WAY more than 29.

Should I accuse the Huffington Post or DailyKos crowd or being accessory to violent intent against W? Better yet, should I ask you and everyone on this thread who hold political views opposite of mine of wanting a civial war?

I asked that you point specifically to the Roeder or von Brunn quotes that state "I was ...

Spritualmonkey:

"Bill O'Riley referred to Dr. Tiller as "Tiller the Baby Killer" (or variants thereof) 29 times on his program, referring to "Judgement Day" and comparing him to the nazis."

I didn't ask how many times somebody in "right wing media" said something you don't like.

How many times in Liberal blogs has the term BusHitler been used? Hint: WAY more than 29.

Should I accuse the Huffington Post or DailyKos crowd or being accessory to violent intent against W? Better yet, should I ask you and everyone on this thread who hold political views opposite of mine of wanting a civial war?

I asked that you point specifically to the Roeder or von Brunn quotes that state "I was inspired by Beck / O'Reilly / Limbaugh / Savage..." or any of the other people you LOVE to hate.

Waiting...

Ratilfar, I genuinely do not understand the first paragraph. What exactly are you trying to say? I’m not putting up a “defense” at all. I’m pointing out that the accusation that Conservatives are “starting a civil war” is fatuous and nonsensical. I asked for evidence of a call to violence against abortion providers and by popular conservative media, and you still haven’t produced it.

Did O’Reilly point to the fact that a very distasteful procedure took place? Yes -- he opposes it with great moral outrage, with acceptance creating an ethical slope leading to the worst aspects of eugenic behavior. So what? I’m asking you AGAIN: did he say “go kill this guy”? You have access through Lexis/Ne...

Ratilfar, I genuinely do not understand the first paragraph. What exactly are you trying to say? I’m not putting up a “defense” at all. I’m pointing out that the accusation that Conservatives are “starting a civil war” is fatuous and nonsensical. I asked for evidence of a call to violence against abortion providers and by popular conservative media, and you still haven’t produced it.

Did O’Reilly point to the fact that a very distasteful procedure took place? Yes -- he opposes it with great moral outrage, with acceptance creating an ethical slope leading to the worst aspects of eugenic behavior. So what? I’m asking you AGAIN: did he say “go kill this guy”? You have access through Lexis/Nexis to find every single word stated on his TV and Radio shows. So just go produce an unedited paragraph that shows he did. Did Roeder express that he was guided by “leadership” in right-leaning media to do this? To quote the original direction from the OP in this thread: yes or no?

And, again: how in the WORLD do you come to the conclusion that the media personalities who are the most diametrically opposed to Holocaust deniers somehow encouraged the lunacy of von Brunn? Mark Levin (a HUGE conservative and Obama opponent) expressed his desire that this nutball would “reach room temperature’ before he could be arraigned. There is ZERO support for anti-Jewish sentiment in the popular conservative media -- I heard FAR more disparaging comments about Jews on Air America as they addressed the evils of the neo-Con movement.

Some people are inflamed by news, opinion, and media advocacy; many to the point of fury. The criminal and the insane may find justification for the most heinous act. The Manson Family believed the rich people they killed had it coming as punishment for their avarice -- were they “led” by popular sentiment at the time, or were they loonies? And what about Bill and Bernadette? I have no case to insist they were all led by a socialist media sentiment sweeping Am

Addressing the neocons has nothing to do with Judaism.

Strike one.

Two, talk-hate radio, from Limbaugh on down has created and catered to an atmosphere of false statements, personal attacks and scaremongering tied directly to this wave of violence.

Of course O'Reilly didn't order the hit, he is not THAT stupid, but he and other have contributed over the years and specially in the last 12 months to this atmosphere of hate decrying nonsensical things like socialism, Islamofacism, supporting torture, racism and the like. Add a messianic vision of the End Times and calls for secession and you have the recipe for what is going on now.

Like the Right kept asking the average Muslim for years...

Addressing the neocons has nothing to do with Judaism.

Strike one.

Two, talk-hate radio, from Limbaugh on down has created and catered to an atmosphere of false statements, personal attacks and scaremongering tied directly to this wave of violence.

Of course O'Reilly didn't order the hit, he is not THAT stupid, but he and other have contributed over the years and specially in the last 12 months to this atmosphere of hate decrying nonsensical things like socialism, Islamofacism, supporting torture, racism and the like. Add a messianic vision of the End Times and calls for secession and you have the recipe for what is going on now.

Like the Right kept asking the average Muslim for years, denounce the extremist in your ranks, reign back the hate or be forever tied to it like the proverbial albatross.