I have to completely disagree with the whole "Nothing happens by chance" statement. However in trying to word my arguments against it I can see that no one will understand what I'm trying to say and simply see it as an attack on their good vibes so I'll just point out one thing.

Believing that nothing happens without a reason frees all criminals of their crimes because by this belief their acts played a part in shaping some other life. It means that death by terrible disease or injury should be welcomed because of the building of character it will have on the survivors. It means that those that sacrifice their lives in order to save or benefit others was not an act of courage, honor, or sac...

I have to completely disagree with the whole "Nothing happens by chance" statement. However in trying to word my arguments against it I can see that no one will understand what I'm trying to say and simply see it as an attack on their good vibes so I'll just point out one thing.

Believing that nothing happens without a reason frees all criminals of their crimes because by this belief their acts played a part in shaping some other life. It means that death by terrible disease or injury should be welcomed because of the building of character it will have on the survivors. It means that those that sacrifice their lives in order to save or benefit others was not an act of courage, honor, or sacrifice, but a destined act in which they can take no credit.

I find that a cold world.

@Oortcloud
I don't think that "believing that nothing happens without a reason" must lead to the conclusion that nobody is responsible for his/her deeds (good or evil).
One may conclude this, depending on how one understands the 'reason' in this context. But it is not a conclusion that necessarily follows from the presumption.

People have free will, they choose their actions. There are also things that happen without the interference of humans. One may believe that all of these things are related to each other, one thing being (or made to be) a reason for another thing.

I understand your point and share your concern (about such beliefs and their possible negative resu...

@Oortcloud
I don't think that "believing that nothing happens without a reason" must lead to the conclusion that nobody is responsible for his/her deeds (good or evil).
One may conclude this, depending on how one understands the 'reason' in this context. But it is not a conclusion that necessarily follows from the presumption.

People have free will, they choose their actions. There are also things that happen without the interference of humans. One may believe that all of these things are related to each other, one thing being (or made to be) a reason for another thing.

I understand your point and share your concern (about such beliefs and their possible negative results/effects on people/societies), but I find it is not right/fair to formulate this concern in a way that somehow implicates, that for all people believing in such a thing one of the following must hold:
1- the person believes in something, knowing to what it leads necessarily and accepting this conclusion (that is: freeing all humans from their responsibilities, in the example above)
2- the person believes in something without knowing to what it leads necessarily, thus believing in something without thinking about it (being irrational at the worst)

To point out, that one has to careful with such beliefs and that they may lead to (obviously) wrong conclusions; to ask how the other defines and specifies his/her belief before putting an assumed definition onto it and drawing conclusions from that definition seems more suited. If it's all about learning/understanding by sharing, that is.

I'm not so sure of the idea of free will in a world were everything has a reason. If that is the case then no single event is solitary, but tied inextricably with a multitude of other past, present, and future events.

You may try and say "Bob shot Dave because he wanted to take his money" and treat it like an act of free will, but if purpose and effect are intertwined then Bob shot Dave because events played out in order to have a specific effect. Whatever or whoever is pulling the strings made Bob shoot Dave for a reason. In the end free will is lost.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out the inconsistency of this ideal. I recognize the reasoning behind such thinking, but specifically pointi...

I'm not so sure of the idea of free will in a world were everything has a reason. If that is the case then no single event is solitary, but tied inextricably with a multitude of other past, present, and future events.

You may try and say "Bob shot Dave because he wanted to take his money" and treat it like an act of free will, but if purpose and effect are intertwined then Bob shot Dave because events played out in order to have a specific effect. Whatever or whoever is pulling the strings made Bob shoot Dave for a reason. In the end free will is lost.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out the inconsistency of this ideal. I recognize the reasoning behind such thinking, but specifically pointing it out will just offend people so I'll leave off here. I personally think more harm than good comes from ideals such as these so felt the need to interject.

@ abailart

Good point. Let's accept for a moment that there is some force manipulating events for a specific outcome. Through manipulation only small effects have to really be made in order to influence how something comes works out. For the most part everything is already happening on its own - following the paths and influences put into place long ago by destiny

Then we realize that there is something out there manipulating things for a specific cause. The result is "Don't worry, be happy, some intelligence is in control and everything happens for a reason". Now that force has to work extra hard to keep these lazy things moving along the right path because half of us surrender to the ide...

@ abailart

Good point. Let's accept for a moment that there is some force manipulating events for a specific outcome. Through manipulation only small effects have to really be made in order to influence how something comes works out. For the most part everything is already happening on its own - following the paths and influences put into place long ago by destiny

Then we realize that there is something out there manipulating things for a specific cause. The result is "Don't worry, be happy, some intelligence is in control and everything happens for a reason". Now that force has to work extra hard to keep these lazy things moving along the right path because half of us surrender to the idea that our lives are destined for one thing or another and slowly, but increasingly, begin to give up the ability to take responsibility for our own lives, depending more and more on destiny to just work things out to some pre-ordained future.

Or

There is no force behind manipulating events, and bad things, as well as good, simply happen because of chance. Knowing that the future lies in our own hands we work hard to understand the elemental forces that drive our universe and seek to use that knowledge to improve a standard of life and avoid calamity. The perfect companion is not found through destiny but rather because one seeks that companion through common sense and an understanding of self to recognize key qualities that will enhance and compliment a relationship.

People are held responsible for their actions and the search for knowledge may even provide a means of eliminating the worse offenders through training, enlightenment, and rehabilitation.

In both cases the unknown comes into play. Either accept that all is beyond control and in the hands of some unknowable force or accept that things just happen and we can influence such events through knowledge and understanding.

So perhaps my "reason" is to warn against the effects of blind acceptance of destiny.

@Oortcloud
I thought about it and realized, that we did understand the same sentence "nothing happens without a reason" in two different ways (which confused me a little bit in the beginning).

I was thinking of something like that: Dave does something good, and this is made to be a reason that something good happens to him. Or: Bob is ill and lies in hospital, the medicine seem not to work, people pray, this is made to be reason for the medicine to work and Bob gets better.
That doesn't discard free will, it supports it and adds "it'll all come back to you" (of course one may never know if these are true, they're beliefs).

I understood: nothing happens, without a reason (cause) bei...

@Oortcloud
I thought about it and realized, that we did understand the same sentence "nothing happens without a reason" in two different ways (which confused me a little bit in the beginning).

I was thinking of something like that: Dave does something good, and this is made to be a reason that something good happens to him. Or: Bob is ill and lies in hospital, the medicine seem not to work, people pray, this is made to be reason for the medicine to work and Bob gets better.
That doesn't discard free will, it supports it and adds "it'll all come back to you" (of course one may never know if these are true, they're beliefs).

I understood: nothing happens, without a reason (cause) being there to make it happen (some causes/reasons may be observable, some may not).

You understood: nothing happens, without an effect/result being there for which it has to happen: the/some outcome (Dave is shot) becomes somehow the reason/cause of its own cause (Bob shoots him down).

The meaning of the clip is more close to your understanding I guess.
By the time I was writing my first comment I was focused on the sentence "nothing happens without a reason", I put my own definition on it and was drawing conclusions from that

Regarding the meaning as you described it: I know/believe/think that everyone is responsible for his/her deeds. And choose not to think further about it; about all these cause-effect things, which are strongly related to time (which happens first, which happens after), and my understanding/knowledge about time is not thorough enough so far to shape my own opinion about these things.

May I quote something from "The color of magic" (Terry Pratchett) I read today:


"You'd be Twoflower, wouldn't you? Or is that later?"
"Later?" said Twoflower. "Later than what?" He stopped.
"Well", said the voice. "You see, one of the advantages of being dead
is that one is released as it were from the bonds of time and therefore
I can see everything that has happened or will happen, all at the same
time except that of course I now know that Time does not, for all
practical purposes, exist."
"That doesn't sound like a disadvantage," said Twoflower.
"You don't think so? Imagine every moment being at one and the same
time a distant memory and a nasty surprise and you'll see what I mean.
Anyw...

May I quote something from "The color of magic" (Terry Pratchett) I read today:


"You'd be Twoflower, wouldn't you? Or is that later?"
"Later?" said Twoflower. "Later than what?" He stopped.
"Well", said the voice. "You see, one of the advantages of being dead
is that one is released as it were from the bonds of time and therefore
I can see everything that has happened or will happen, all at the same
time except that of course I now know that Time does not, for all
practical purposes, exist."
"That doesn't sound like a disadvantage," said Twoflower.
"You don't think so? Imagine every moment being at one and the same
time a distant memory and a nasty surprise and you'll see what I mean.
Anyway, I now recall what it was I am about to tell you. Or have I
already done so? That's a fine looking dragon, by the way. Or don't I
say that yet?"
...
"I think you already told me that," said Twoflower.
Did I? I certainly intended to," said the dead man.
...

"... But I can see I mustn't keep you. I expect you'll be wanting to rescue your friend."

Twoflower gaped. "Hrun?" he said.

"Not him. The skinny wizard. My son Lio!rt is trying to hack im to pieces. I admired the way you rescued him. Will, I mean."

Did I mentioned I love Terry Pratchett books?
I certainly intended to...