 caoilfhionn says: Well of course this sounds like our current commie propagandists...and it is, although the media and others seem to avoid the term, a tactic which was known some years ago as communist propaganda - LIES - to fit the political goal. It is a coward's position, and is not based in fact or reason. I was thinking the other day about how someone like Scott Beauchamp lied about war crimes of his fellow soldiers, yet he is hailed as a hero by the left. That is their cowardly position; hating the military and looking for ways to discredit, malign and derail the mission. To hell with the consequences, they have an election coming up! And God forbid the Republicans or the chickenhawks should be RIGHT about this...we have to make sure that everyone thinks they're WRONG by depicting them as bloodthirsty savages. Even though the soldiers who are dying are our neighbors, our sons, daughters, nieces, nephews, cousins, etc.-if not our own kids, they're the kids next door. Shameful. Excellently stated! HEAR HEAR POPPED If you are interested in facts you should read the Toledo Blade's Pulitzer prize winning series "Tiger Force" about the atrocities committed by some US armed forces in Vietnam (in this case a platoon in the 101st Airborne Division). About the series/The Blade's team The Blade's investigation began after the newspaper obtained 22 pages of classified Army records detailing atrocities by Tiger Force. The records of the Army's Criminal Investigation Command were just the start. Reporters reviewed volumes of research on the Vietnam War, finding no mention of the Army's investigation of the platoon... There were mind-opening accounts of things done in 3BC by... oops, that's not really relevant to this clip at all... is it Bobby? How in the world could it not be relevant she is saying that John Kerry and Ted Kennedy were propagandist liars when the facts support exactly what they said. It's infantile for both you and caoilfhionn to say that US activities are always as pure as the driven snow. Nobody's advocating 'pure...' at all. You can always find losers, weirdos etc. anywhere, including our Army. When you have hundreds of thousands of people - that's nothing atypical. The problem with most of your assertions is that you concentrate on the very few that do some negative acts, as if it was the norm for the rest of hundreds of thousands, and that's factually completely inaccurate. Certainly goes well with your political propaganda, but it's not the facts relating to our troops as a whole. Its the same thing over and over from stupid neocons First of I never said it was the whole. You picked that out of the ethereal. My exact statement says "some US armed forces". Those atrocities committed by Tiger Force are significant. Those atrocities don't even include the My Lai massacre and what it points to is when you fight an insurgent guerrilla war achieving your goals are going to be extremely difficult because a frustration point gets reached by military personnel because they cannot detect who is the enemy and who is the friend and events like these start happening. You can't win hearts and minds if you start killing the people you are suppose to be delivering democracy to. I don't believe we have to start reviewing Abu Ghraib again. You said and I quote... US activities are always as pure as the driven snow.That's a blanket statement. I agree that you don't win 'hearts and minds', but the question is do you want to win a war you're fighting or not. Wars aren't fought typically just to win the hearts and minds, although it would be a nice side-effect. Certainly in this war the concept was to win it militarily against saddam and we did and then win hearts and minds of the people of Iraq... obviously that didn't work out so well, so after he was gone - the war was on full steam... and the tactics should've been changed to win it, not try the hearts & minds concept while people are dying. That's a stretch, that comment was made about you and your beliefs, that's not me making a comment on the military. Sorry, Iraq was the wrong war. It never should have been fought at all. And I'm telling you you're wrong about me and my beliefs when you make that assumption. Between the two of us - I'm slightly better qualified when it comes to my beliefs. As for the war being wrong... which one is right? All of them could be looked at from the same perspective. No war is right or good. You could say the same about WWI, WWII etc. I do think it's totally counterproductive to keep harping on the merits of this war, since that's the reality right now. The President called for this war to start, as was his right to do. The Congress approved it as well as the majority of American public at the time. It accomplishes NOTHING to keep beating the 'wrong war' drum now. This i... it will ever be pure misery until the day Bush goes away. flowers will bloom the birds will sing when we are allowed to jail the corporate king>>> and all the rest> Sorry to disappoint you, lorigrace, but it's unlikely you'll jail him, although he'll definitely go away a year + from now. BTW, I don't know where you live, but birds are singing daily and flowers are blooming... have been every year he's been in office... you must have you eyes and ears shut if you don't see/hear it. Yes the vultures of death have been singing their song and the poison hemlock has grown unfettered. RS if you are saying that the justification for the war is based on the opinion of the people then it should be halted dead in it's tracks right now. Unlike you they realize there is not going to be a Hollywood ending to this war. People are easily duped when the patriotism card is played. How many times will this quote have to be posted before you finally read it. "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parlia... You know exactly what I'm saying. Yes, this war was started with support of vast majority, including all instances of the government. I'm also saying that you don't start something like that and end it because you all of a sudden changed your mind... at least not without some seriously negative consequences. It's NOT that simple. Look what happened when US left Vietnam, Korea? It's one thing to tell their people they're being attacked, and totally different when they ARE being attacked. You may look at it as just talk, but after thousands of Americans killed in Africa & US - we HAVE been attacked... not sure why you have such a hard time realizing it. And it's likely we'll be attacked... Your right it isn't simple and it's disgusting that conservatives have portrayed it as a cut run with all troops fleeing wrecklessly at the word go. All of the Democratic candidates I have seen have either a plan of phased withdrawal and/or negotiating for the UN to play a role with Muslim peacekeeping forces from the region taking our place. The way you characterize it is ridiculous. As I said, Iraq was the wrong war (it was a frigging lie and you know it) Afghanistan was the justifiable war and now that is in grave danger of being a pointless effort because Bush=Cheney always prized Iraq instead of the real mission. Furthermore your being a history revisionist. There was not overwhelming... It would be nice if just once you knew what you were talking about RS. From a Times Poll just one month before Bush made his bungle to commit the US to an invasion based on lies. Link - But that support is immediately qualified by reluctance to invade without an explicit authorization from the United Nations. Fully 65 percent of Americans agreed that the United States "should take military action against Iraq only (with) ... the support of the United Nations Security Council." Just 30 percent said the United States should act without such authorization. Mr RecordSage you are no match for Mr Bobby Rutan. Funny, I had no idea this was a competition, but you're right - he just doesn't get some things... but that's his right, just as it is yours to point it out... you seem to exemplify the header of this clipmark. Far more correct on this issue than you RS. I never see you back up your statements with anything substantive. |
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