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righthandfollowshare
10-12-2007 7:07 AM
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righthand says:
"We were in a weapon carrier when this guy, around 25, passed by in the street, and just like that, for no reason, he didn't throw a stone, did nothing - bang, a bullet in the stomach - he shot him in the stomach and the guy is dying on the sidewalk and we keep going, apathetic. No one gave him a second look."

An ideology developed that even minor events necessitated a brutal response. "A 3-year-old kid, he can't throw, he can't hurt you no matter what he does, but a kid of 19 can. With women I have no problem. With women, one threw a clog at me and I kicked her here [pointing to the crotch], I broke everything there. She can't have children. Next time she won't throw clogs at me. When one of them [a woman] spat at me I gave her the rifle butt in the face. She doesn't have what to spit with anymore."

Some of them to cover up for their friends, even if they stole from homes where they conducted searches or sexually harassed or provoked Arab women.
...Haaretz
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10-12-2007 7:16 AM
righthand
"After two months in Rafah a [new] commanding officer arrived ... So we do a first patrol with him. It's 6 A.M., Rafah is under curfew, there isn't so much as a dog in the streets. Only a little boy of four playing in the sand. He is building a castle in his yard. He [the officer] suddenly starts running and we all run with him. He was from the combat engineers. We all run with him. He grabbed the boy. Nufar, I am a degenerate if I am not telling you the truth.
He broke his hand here at the wrist.
Broke his hand at the wrist,
broke his leg here
. And
started to stomp on his stomach, three times, and left. We are all there, jaws dropping, looking at him in shock...
10-12-2007 7:26 AM
righthand
"The army did not give that unit regular training and hardly gave them leaves. They did not get the opportunity to recover with a bit of a holiday. Training builds the unit in the direction of a regular army rather than a militia, but the unit got only a third of the training it was supposed to get. The soldiers claimed that the longer the unit spent in the field, the more violent it became and the more it was prone to impose order. They claimed that the army was aware of the drift toward violence, and encouraged it, because that way they could allocate less manpower.

"There are two means the army adopts to steer the violence in war in appropriate directions," she continues, "namely battle...
10-12-2007 7:27 AM
righthand
Can you sum up the message of the study?

"The message might be too complex for a newspaper article. Freud talks about the destructive aggressive instinct. In a letter to Einstein in 1932, Freud wrote, 'Musing on the atrocities recorded on history's page, we feel that the ideal motive has often served as a camouflage for the lust of destruction.' That has existed in everyone, in all languages and in all religions, across all the hundreds and thousands of years of history, and probably even before. There are some cultures that are more violent, yes, but violence appears in every culture. There are situations that provoke it and cause the violence to well up to the surface.

"There is nothing ...
10-12-2007 10:52 AM
aculton
I cant say what it is like to kill a person, I never have.
hope I never have to.
i cant imagine what happens to these men at a time of war and this kind of war that make these actions possible, the consequences shall last a life time, the effect shall last a eternity.
10-12-2007 1:26 PM
cptenaud
There really are those who are born killers. And when they get into the military. Their actions can trigger same response. I have seen this in a small way in Vietnam.
I think now it is much more. Especially when we have people in a war as Hellish as this. And when you have them in this situation for the length of time that these people have endured. You cant expect them to come home and be productive citizens. We may be training
a segment of our population. To be the next criminals
at home.
10-13-2007 5:40 AM
righthand
I have quoted the soldiers words at length. However in the very long main article there is a much more complex story about "The two soldiers of conscience" that weaves in and out of the whole article. This made some of by quotes difficult to stand alone and make sense.

"The two soldiers of conscience" story is most intriguing and very well worth taking the time to read when you have time.
10-16-2007 9:54 AM
Patty2007
I went to the site and readed all the article. This reminded me of a documentary I saw in tv last Sunday. Great clip.
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